What’s it gonna take to get you to buy a Type S?

[KoukiVAB]

I read somewhere that the K20C4/C6 would need bigger turbo for more hp.
Maybe some kind of a hybrid between the c1 and the c4/c6?

 

[pomegranate]

And the Acura hating circle jerks continue…?

Anddd here comes the sensitive fanboy.

that's literally the jump from Si to R and smaller than the jump from the new Si to the soon coming R.

The Integra has the same amount of power as the Si, but the Type S is still about luxury first and foremost not just performance. It's smaller than the new Si to the R because the Si "lost" 5 HP on paper and I'm not buying that the new Type R will have more (or significantly more) HP.

I'm not "fixated" on numbers, I just don't think it'll happen. Why would someone buy the 40k Type R when they can get a similarly HP'ed Type S Integra also at 40k but with more luxury? I would love for Honda/Acura to prove me wrong.

 

[jd2157]

Those obsessing over HP and acceleration numbers remind me of my daughter obsessing over the size of her cookie compared to mine. Other than in her head the difference makes no difference… other than in her head.

We already know the Integra will be similar but slightly slower than the Si due to weight but it won’t be a huge difference. Same with the Type S, it’s highly unlikely they give ITS more power than CTR so it’ll be slower but it’ll still be a lot faster than the 1.5T Integra.

 

[HKF]

Anddd here comes the sensitive fanboy.


The Integra has the same amount of power as the Si, but the Type S is still about luxury first and foremost not just performance. It's smaller than the new Si to the R because the Si "lost" 5 HP on paper and I'm not buying that the new Type R will have more (or significantly more) HP.

I'm not "fixated" on numbers, I just don't think it'll happen. Why would someone buy the 40k Type R when they can get a similarly HP'ed Type S Integra also at 40k but with more luxury? I would love for Honda/Acura to prove me wrong.

You sound fixated on numbers like your buddy, Bullsh-I mean Bullitt!

 

[Integra23]

I don't see the S costing less than 40k. Some are saying the TypeA will be 35k-38k. I would expect the S to come in around 42-44k.

 

[pomegranate]

You sound fixated on numbers like your buddy, Bullsh-I mean Bullitt!

God forbid someone speculates about HPs on a car forum. Just say you're mad we aren't sucking off your daddy, Jon Ikeda. I'm interested in the Integra and I don't need rabid fanboys telling me I'm not bending over deep enough for the Integra.

 

[Potenza]

I'd be just fine with even the 272 if the car handles very well vs it competition.

You're only using horsepower numbers, but what about torque? The Accord's 252hp 2.0T has 273lb-ft. The TLX's 272hp 2.0T has 280lb-ft. That's a difference of just 7lb-ft of torque.

Benefits of using the Accord 2.0: Lower insurance, regular gas (vs premium), likely better fuel economy - all costs which add up monthly for the lifetime of vehicle ownership, beyond just MSRP comparisons. Meanwhile it's only 7lb-ft off of the more powerful motor.

Every vehicle offering is a compromise, and that includes more figures than just HP and MSRP. I could see how Honda could find the noted compromises very compelling for its customers.

Personally I don't foresee the Type-S as anything close to a CTR sibling. There is a massive gap between 200hp Si/Teg and 306+hp CTR. I think the goal is to put a stepping stone offering in there. 250-270hp max, I believe.

 

[Potenza]

As far as transmission, I could foresee Honda offering a 6MT and a 10AT at launch, then dropping the 6MT after a model year or two once everyone who wanted one already got one. This is what they did on both the Accord 2.0T and the ILX - initially offering a 6MT, then going to automatic-only for the remaining years.

Similarly, they may drop the 6MT from the A-Spec Tech if/once a Type-S 6MT is offered. There just isn't an unlimited well of manual buyers. As we see with the 70% initial rate, the manual enthusiasts frontload the take of that offering, and then it dwindles and at some point makes sense to drop it to consolidate production to majority-sales spec.

 

[HKF]

God forbid someone speculates about HPs on a car forum. Just say you're mad we aren't sucking off your daddy, Jon Ikeda. I'm interested in the Integra and I don't need rabid fanboys telling me I'm not bending over deep enough for the Integra.

Judging by your avatar, you do seem to like them more…tender than Jon.

 

[pomegranate]

Judging by your avatar, you do seem to like them more…tender than Jon.

Because all Asians are the same right Kevin?

Personally I don't foresee the Type-S as anything close to a CTR sibling. There is a massive gap between 200hp Si/Teg and 306+hp CTR. I think the goal is to put a stepping stone offering in there. 250-270hp max, I believe.

Exactly what I meant. I just don't see 300 HP AND a manual being offered. Why would someone take the Type R then if the Integra is still in the same 40k bracket. I don't mean this as an insult to the ITS which is sad that I have to clarify that.

 

[urbanglowcam]

Because all Asians are the same right Kevin?


Exactly what I meant. I just don't see 300 HP AND a manual being offered. Why would someone take the Type R then if the Integra is still in the same 40k bracket. I don't mean this as an insult to the ITS which is sad that I have to clarify that.

By that logic, why would someone take the base Integra over the Civic SI? The extra luxuries and design, right? You could say the same for the highest performance trims and the difference in price could be relative.

In the past, the Integra / RSX was just as competitive or more than the highest trim Civic. I see no reason this should be any different.

 

[pomegranate]

By that logic, why would someone take the base Integra over the Civic SI? The extra luxuries and design, right? You could say the same for the highest performance trims and the difference in price could be relative.

In the past, the Integra / RSX was just as competitive or more than the highest trim Civic. I see no reason this should be any different.

Because the base Integra offers an auto. If you're getting an Si then you want a manual which is on the ~7-8k more Integra A-spec Tech.

 

[urbanglowcam]

Because the base Integra offers an auto. If you're getting an Si then you want a manual which is on the ~7-8k more Integra A-spec Tech.

I remember the Civic SI being manual only while the base RSX (Integra) was offered as a manual or auto. The RSX Type S was only offered as a manual however.

Of course the difference was that we didn't have a Civic Type R in North America.

 

[Linas19]

I'm well known for hating VW reliability. I'd easily take the VW if the difference is saving 5k and having an available manual, or spending 3k more to get AWD and 63HP more, also with a manual.

If I'm gonna spend 40k on a car I'm not gonna randomly compromise just because I like the name. At 40K and 252HP what's the reason to get it vs ANY of its competition, and yes ALL these cars will be cross shopped and they WILL be compared in magazines and reviews wether or not they are "entry level luxury" or not.

252hp FWD for 39-40K - Integra
250HP AWD for 36K - Mazda 3
241HP FWD for 35K - GTI
315hp AWD for 43k - Golf R
252HP FWD for 38K - Accord
271HP AWD for 36K - WRX
272HP AWD for 41K - TLX
Yes some will also be cross shopping the new CTR as well.

In all those comparisons the Integra with only 252HP is the WORST bang/buck even against other Honda/Acura vehicles, and unless you just prefer the looks there is no reason to not save thousands and get something else. But if it were to be 272HP THEN it is much more compelling in its market as it has more power than many of the cheaper cars or the same power as cars prices almost the same. I like the integra's looks, but not enough to spend a few extra grand on it. I also very much like the looks of the GTI, Mazda 3 and TLX and to me, all 3 are a better car for the dollar if the Type-S is that ball less for the price.

Please tell me ONE reason other than "I just like the looks" why a 252HP Type-S would be at all compelling over any of those cars in a way that makes up for the price differences.

Heck if the type-S is THAT gutless I'd just save 8k and buy an Altima again now that you can get one with 248 2.0T.

If the Integra turns out to be underwhelming in my test drive, I will consider the Mazda CX-30 turbo instead of the Mazda 3 turbo because it has larger rear windows and therefore my rear passengers would not be less claustrophobic. Being a CUV, it’s cargo space would be taller than the Integra.

 

[bullitt]

You're only using horsepower numbers, but what about torque? The Accord's 252hp 2.0T has 273lb-ft. The TLX's 272hp 2.0T has 280lb-ft. That's a difference of just 7lb-ft of torque.

Benefits of using the Accord 2.0: Lower insurance, regular gas (vs premium), likely better fuel economy - all costs which add up monthly for the lifetime of vehicle ownership, beyond just MSRP comparisons. Meanwhile it's only 7lb-ft off of the more powerful motor.

Every vehicle offering is a compromise, and that includes more figures than just HP and MSRP. I could see how Honda could find the noted compromises very compelling for its customers.

Personally I don't foresee the Type-S as anything close to a CTR sibling. There is a massive gap between 200hp Si/Teg and 306+hp CTR. I think the goal is to put a stepping stone offering in there. 250-270hp max, I believe.

If I'm buying Type-S I don't care about MPG or fuel costs. If I did, I'd be getting a base CVT. That's why it exists. In the TLX it's rated 24/21/29 and the Accord is 26/22/32, that's barely a change and the fact the TLX is almost 600lbs more is definitely a chunk of that difference.

Who cares if it's just 7TQ? We have already stated that it's a 20HP difference at the same RPM, that's not a tiny number already. In fact, that 20 would be almost 50% of the jump from 200 to 252. and when almost all its direct competition at 40k is near 300, they are also going to want to be near that number too. They are going to want a "pro" under their list of reason for people to get the Type-S over its competition, and with sport trims MPG isn't really one of those. They have to complete on the track with its handling/weight/power/gearing, and if it cant then very few comparing those cars will care if the Type-S has the best cargo capacity, because very few people looking at the performance trims are worrying about MPG, they already have a lead foot, or cargo, they are just a "nice thing".

Look at why people get the Si. Not for its MPG, or cargo but because it's the cheapest option, handles VERY well, and has power to be IN the competition and punch a bit above its weight. The people hunting for #1 priority MPG and Cargo likely aren't even looking at the Si trim they are looking at the hatch or the CVT Civics.

I mean heck the Accord with a 10spd gets 26MPG COMBINED with a 2.0T... I get 22 with my almost 500HP V8 in a car that weighs about 800lbs more than it and just a 6spd. Neither of those 2.0T's are fuel sippers.