What’s it gonna take to get you to buy a Type S?

[HKF]

If I'm buying Type-S I don't care about MPG or fuel costs. If I did, I'd be getting a base CVT. That's why it exists. In the TLX it's rated 24/21/29 and the Accord is 26/22/32, that's barely a change and the fact the TLX is almost 600lbs more is definitely a chunk of that difference.

Who cares if it's just 7TQ? We have already stated that it's a 20HP difference at the same RPM, that's not a tiny number already. In fact, that 20 would be almost 50% of the jump from 200 to 252. and when almost all its direct competition at 40k is near 300, they are also going to want to be near that number too. They are going to want a "pro" under their list of reason for people to get the Type-S over its competition, and with sport trims MPG isn't really one of those. They have to complete on the track with its handling/weight/power/gearing, and if it cant then very few comparing those cars will care if the Type-S has the best cargo capacity, because very few people looking at the performance trims are worrying about MPG, they already have a lead foot, or cargo, they are just a "nice thing".

Look at why people get the Si. Not for its MPG, or cargo but because it's the cheapest option, handles VERY well, and has power to be IN the competition and punch a bit above its weight. The people hunting for #1 priority MPG and Cargo likely aren't even looking at the Si trim they are looking at the hatch or the CVT Civics.

I mean heck the Accord with a 10spd gets 26MPG COMBINED with a 2.0T... I get 22 with my almost 500HP V8 in a car that weighs about 800lbs more than it and just a 6spd. Neither of those 2.0T's are fuel sippers.

Can your V8 get 36+ MPG on the highway at 70+ mph? My 2018 2.0T Accord can! Now that IS a fuel sipper! (This actually does have a fair bit of city thrown in, By the way,)

 

[bullitt]

Can your V8 get 36+ MPG on the highway at 70+ mph? My 2018 2.0T Accord can! Now that IS a fuel sipper! (This actually does have a fair bit of city thrown in, By the way,)

Close if I'm just rolling along I get about 30-32. I'd do a lot better on average if my work wasn't in a VERY hilly area. In my old 2.5L Altima with CVT it would regularly get over 40 average, sometimes it would get near 50 if I could draft behind a truck.

In reality these modern turbos are not very great on fuel. A standard 2.5L or 2.0 will do much better on fuel but have less power and a 3.0 V6 will do better on power, but not fuel. The newer turbos (no matter who makes them) are more a compromise and make people THINK they are great on fuel just because they are smaller 4 bangers.

 

[Greyscale]

I'm pretty OK with the 6MT A spec tech. For me to buy the type S it will have to be noticeably quicker, handle at least as well, and not sacrifice ride. Also 6MT is a must. It will be a daily driver, and I don't need to get beat up. For hard core enthusiats I feel the Civic type R is the proper choice.

I could care less about the HP measuring contest. I do care about the mpg. If it can match the larger Accord 2.0 for mpg that is fine. If mpg is like the type R - forget it.

Honestly I have three wildly different vehicles on my list.

Accord hybrid
Integra
BRZ

Obviously the BRZ would be the most fun at the expense of practicality, and the Accord the most practical at the expense of fun. The Integra is in the middle for both categories.

With the BRZ the fun compensates for the rougher ride and less room. The Integra has to meet a different standard.

The Accord takes away a lot of the passion, but would be great for trips.

FWIW, I have a Miata that can satisfy my fun driving requirements, otherwise the Accord hybrid would be off the list.

The Accord 2.0T with the MT would have been my perfect vehicle (currently own 2 MT Accords), but alas that was taken away. Still don't understand why they did this mid generation.

 

[KoukiVAB]

In reality these modern turbos are not very great on fuel. A standard 2.5L or 2.0 will do much better on fuel but have less power and a 3.0 V6 will do better on power, but not fuel. The newer turbos (no matter who makes them) are more a compromise and make people THINK they are great on fuel just because they are smaller 4 bangers.

Those downsized turbos can be pretty efficient and powerful. Just not at the same time lol
The only thing I actually like about them is how early the torque kicks in.

AND pshhh, of course.

 

[pomegranate]

I remember the Civic SI being manual only while the base RSX (Integra) was offered as a manual or auto. The RSX Type S was only offered as a manual however.

Of course the difference was that we didn't have a Civic Type R in North America.

I'm not sure why we're talking about the RSX. To be honest, I don't even remember what we were talking about here so I'll stop leave it here lol

 

[urbanglowcam]

I'm not sure why we're talking about the RSX. To be honest, I don't even remember what we were talking about here so I'll stop leave it here lol

The RSX was the Integra which is why I feel it's relevant. We don't have to keep going on about this as it's all just hopeful speculation. My point was simply that it wouldn't be out of the question for the Integra Type S to come close to or match the highest trim Civic since this has been the case time and time again.

Hopefully, we'll find out for sure in the coming months!

 

[pomegranate]

The RSX was the Integra which is why I feel it's relevant. We don't have to keep going on about this as it's all just hopeful speculation. My point was simply that it wouldn't be out of the question for the Integra Type S to come close to or match the highest trim Civic since this has been the case time and time again.

Hopefully, we'll find out for sure in the coming months!

Oh i see your point now. Wouldn't that imply that the ITS will be priced more than the Type R then? Assuming the Type R is 40k then maybe 44-45k? Also assuming that the highest trim Integras had matched and cost more than the highest trim civics in the past.

 

[urbanglowcam]

Oh i see your point now. Wouldn't that imply that the ITS will be priced more than the Type R then? Assuming the Type R is 40k then maybe 44-45k? Also assuming that the highest trim Integra's matched, yet cost more than the highest trim civics.

Yup! I fully expect the ITS to be more expensive than the CTR. As it should be being Honda's "luxury" brand.

 

[jd2157]

Yup! I fully expect the ITS to be more expensive than the CTR. As it should be being Honda's "luxury" brand.

Could go either way, your arg is valid as is the CTR is a Type R model and pinnacle of perf of that chassis, but I expect the diff to be around 2-3k… ITS costing more.

 

[urbanglowcam]

Could go either way, your arg is valid as is the CTR is a Type R model and pinnacle of perf of that chassis, but I expect the diff to be around 2-3k… ITS costing more.

Completely agree. I would be pleasantly surprised if the ITS outperforrms or even simply matches the CTR. I think its extra cost will be justified by the more premium features, but not raw performance.

As many have alluded to already, the extra road insulation and chase for comfort over raw performance is what they'll target for their demographic. Still, I hope we at least get the same engine / transmission from the CTR.

Anyone know when we'll find see a full reveal of the CTR? Summer?

 

[jd2157]

Anyone know when we'll find see a full reveal of the CTR? Summer?

I’ve been looking for info on release date and there hasn’t been anything concrete.

My best guess is by end of April. Integra deliveries should start end of May and they’ll want to distance the two milestones a bit.

The Jan “reveal” is well behind us so they’ll want to do something soon before they lose that momentum. I saw an article from late Feb saying the release was imminent… fwiw.

 

[TigerEyeJazz]

I heard Early-Mid Summer. Next car getting revealed is the HR-V. After that I believe it might be the CR-V then CTR.

 

[Saywhaat04]

I heard Early-Mid Summer. Next car getting revealed is the HR-V. After that I believe it might be the CR-V then CTR.

MY2023 is gonna be huge for Honda, especially if the Accord sticks to its 5 year plan...CR-V, Type R, Pilot and Accord were all listed on the leaked product cadence...I wonder if they all come for MY2023 or if some will come early next year. CR-V and Civic are already on 6 year plans...wouldn't surprise me if the Accord was pushed back to the fall of next year.

The HR-V and Pilot need redesigns more than anything else so they can't get here fast enough.

 

[TigerEyeJazz]

MY2023 is gonna be huge for Honda, especially if the Accord sticks to its 5 year plan...CR-V, Type R, Pilot and Accord were all listed on the leaked product cadence...I wonder if they all come for MY2023 or if some will come early next year. CR-V and Civic are already on 6 year plans...wouldn't surprise me if the Accord was pushed back to the fall of next year.

The HR-V and Pilot need redesigns more than anything else so they can't get here fast enough.

They should all be 2023 except the Accord and Pilot maybe.

 

[jd2157]

I heard Early-Mid Summer. Next car getting revealed is the HR-V. After that I believe it might be the CR-V then CTR.

April 4th for the HRV reveal so right you are so far!