Just got Phearable stage 2 tuned - rev hang is still there... :-(

[Victorofhavoc]

What rpm does the torque come in at now?

It still peaks in roughly the same place, but there's just more below as well. Peak is still around that 3k changeover, but at 2200rpm it feels like there's 30-50ftlbs more, which is quite a lot down there.

The customizability with a protune is a great thing. I had him make comfort just like stock for cruising and transporting kids around, and also open the exhaust valve above 5k rpm and 40% throttle. I also had him tune sport exhaust valve so it's a little more closed than stock sport, which on the borla exhaust forces a bit of fumes down the helmholtz and keeps the vtec rattle down during changeover then it opens the valve fully.

I need to make some dyno time this winter, so I can have him tune it to 310 avg whp for NASA TT4. I'll eventually add a proper splitter (not a lip) and re-tune it down to 290 avg whp. This is where protunes really shine.

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[Clark_Kent]

How do you like the COBB OTS map?

What was the process like in getting it tuned with COBB? does it still need to be unlocked?

I'm satisfied with it and it's what you would expect from this type of OTS map. It's a stop gap until I get the car custom tuned in the coming months. I posted general thoughts about it on the other forum here and here.

I posted this as well which some may find helpful or interesting:

Here is a raw .csv file converted to a datazap.me interactive chart. The map is COBB Tuning Stage 1 93 OCT or 98 RON. The only deviation I have from the hard parts requirements is a drop-in air filter (SPOON Sports Air Cleaner). Map notes are as follows:

Description: Stage1 93 OCT or 98 RON - Intended for an otherwise stock Civic Type R or Integra Type S with a stock intake stock intercooler and stock exhaust. 93 octane fuel minimum (98 RON). Boost: Dynamic up to 22.5psi peak boost pressure tapering to 21.5psi by redline +/- 1psi as needed to achieve load torque and airflow targets.

Stage 1 Hard Parts Requirements

• Exhaust Requirements: Stock or upgraded catback exhaust.
• Intake Requirements: Stock air box and filter.
• Intercooler Requirements: Stock
• Boost Level: 22.5psi +/- 1psi tapering down as you reach redline.

https://datazap.me/u/clarkkent/hon-003-stage1-93-oct-or-98-ronptp-wot-3rd-gear?log=0&data=9-15

The ECU still needs to be unlocked so I had to mail it in. It's a very quick turnaround and they make it simple for you. They send a box, custom foam insert to fit the ECU, anti-static bag to place the ECU in, and a pair of COBB Tuning work gloves. They also have step-by-step instructions available to remove the ECU.

I didn't send it out strategically to minimize downtime. I simply sent it out when it was convenient. What I mean by that is: I sent it out on Friday from Atlanta, GA. It was delivered on Tuesday to COBB Tuning in Austin, TX (They're closed on weekends and Monday was Memorial Day). The ECU was unlocked by COBB and left their facility the same day it was received. I got it back on Wednesday. Presumably, you could send it out on Monday and have the ECU unlocked and back in your car by Wednesday as the happy path. Credit to COBB Tuning for making the process both simple and easy. The thoughtfulness and attention to detail made this a great UX.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I'm satisfied with it and it's what you would expect from this type of OTS map. It's a stop gap until I get the car custom tuned in the coming months. I posted general thoughts about it on the other forum here and here.

I posted this as well which some may find helpful or interesting:

Here is a raw .csv file converted to a datazap.me interactive chart. The map is COBB Tuning Stage 1 93 OCT or 98 RON. The only deviation I have from the hard parts requirements is a drop-in air filter (SPOON Sports Air Cleaner). Map notes are as follows:

Description: Stage1 93 OCT or 98 RON - Intended for an otherwise stock Civic Type R or Integra Type S with a stock intake stock intercooler and stock exhaust. 93 octane fuel minimum (98 RON). Boost: Dynamic up to 22.5psi peak boost pressure tapering to 21.5psi by redline +/- 1psi as needed to achieve load torque and airflow targets.

Stage 1 Hard Parts Requirements

• Exhaust Requirements: Stock or upgraded catback exhaust.
• Intake Requirements: Stock air box and filter.
• Intercooler Requirements: Stock
• Boost Level: 22.5psi +/- 1psi tapering down as you reach redline.

https://datazap.me/u/clarkkent/hon-003-stage1-93-oct-or-98-ronptp-wot-3rd-gear?log=0&data=9-15

The ECU still needs to be unlocked so I had to mail it in. It's a very quick turnaround and they make it simple for you. They send a box, custom foam insert to fit the ECU, anti-static bag to place the ECU in, and a pair of COBB Tuning work gloves. They also have step-by-step instructions available to remove the ECU.

I didn't send it out strategically to minimize downtime. I simply sent it out when it was convenient. What I mean by that is: I sent it out on Friday from Atlanta, GA. It was delivered on Tuesday to COBB Tuning in Austin, TX (They're closed on weekends and Monday was Memorial Day). The ECU was unlocked by COBB and left their facility the same day it was received. I got it back on Wednesday. Presumably, you could send it out on Monday and have the ECU unlocked and back in your car by Wednesday as the happy path. Credit to COBB Tuning for making the process both simple and easy. The thoughtfulness and attention to detail made this a great UX.

I dropped mine off on a Thursday afternoon and got it back Monday morning.

Agreed, the process, packaging, and nice touches like antistatic bag and gloves were a nice peace of mind feeling


Also, I'm tuning with Brian at JST performance for my custom tune. Couldn't recommend him enough! Great dude, and easy process working with him. Their one time buy an unlimited tune/retune option for 3 years is worth it. Can't beat the customer service and direct, no-BS attitude!

 

[whtciv2k]

I think we're creating unnecessary confusion here by describing this as "rev hang". Completely different animal. Rev hang is when the RPMs drop very slowly and lazily. The 1.5L engine in the base and A-spec Integra, and Civic Si, has horrible rev hang. I noticed it right away and could never live with that on a daily basis. Typical byproduct of modern emissions strategies.

The ITS (and CTR, and many other modern sports cars) do rev-matched upshifts, where revs will drop to and hold at the proper RPM for the next gear and current road speed. It generally works well. Some people perceive that as rev hang, but it's intentional -- relatively fast RPM drop *then* a hold -- and the hold has a timeout if you wait too long before re-engaging the clutch in the next gear.

The throttle over-rev behavior we're talking about on the ITS and CTR is annoying as hell, and I always wondered if it was a software glitch. Lifting off the throttle is having the opposite effect since revs shoot up instead of drop down. But if 3rd party tuners can't/won't correct it, must be something intrinsic to the throttle and boost arrangement of the engine.

I recently traded my ITS for a CTR and notice a few subtle improvements in the stock tune, but the over-rev behavior is very much there and the same. Even being used to the behavior, it still bugs the heck out of me.

Do any of the third-party tunes enable no-lift shifting? How does that behave with regards to the the stock over-rev tendency?

Yes! I’m glad you mentioned something. I kept seeing “rev hang” and I never experienced it in my ITS. My 8th gen fg2 si def had the rev hang where it drops about 1k rpm after depressing the clutch and it hangs for a split second before dropping to idle. In the ITs it’s more of an “over rev” where you depress the clutch and release throttle about the same time but the rpm’s continue to rise. I can stop this from happening if I slow things down

 

[elh0102]

The ITS (and CTR, and many other modern sports cars) do rev-matched upshifts, where revs will drop to and hold at the proper RPM for the next gear and current road speed. It generally works well. Some people perceive that as rev hang, but it's intentional -- relatively fast RPM drop *then* a hold -- and the hold has a timeout if you wait too long before re-engaging the clutch in the next gear.

The throttle over-rev behavior we're talking about on the ITS and CTR is annoying as hell, and I always wondered if it was a software glitch. Lifting off the throttle is having the opposite effect since revs shoot up instead of drop down. But if 3rd party tuners can't/won't correct it, must be something intrinsic to the throttle and boost arrangement of the engine.

It's not universal in the factory tuning, as my 2025 ITS has neither of these behaviors. On an upshift the revs drop immediately, and not partially, no "hold".

 

[whtciv2k]

It's not universal in the factory tuning, as my 2025 ITS has neither of these behaviors. On an upshift the revs drop immediately, and not partially, no "hold".

I agree with this as well. Most people don’t seem to understand what actual rev hang is.

 

[Clark_Kent]

I dropped mine off on a Thursday afternoon and got it back Monday morning.

Agreed, the process, packaging, and nice touches like antistatic bag and gloves were a nice peace of mind feeling


Also, I'm tuning with Brian at JST performance for my custom tune. Couldn't recommend him enough! Great dude, and easy process working with him. Their one time buy an unlimited tune/retune option for 3 years is worth it. Can't beat the customer service and direct, no-BS attitude!

Very nice! My tuner is TBD at the moment. Brian has tuned quite a few of these on the Accessport. I've also heard nothing but good things about him.

 

[ashmostro]

Installed a Turbosmart BOV (100% vent to atmosphere) today, which was a bit more of a pain in the butt than it should have been given the supplied bolts would not work in one of the three mounting holes due to clearance issues, so I needed to source my own hex head bolt to make it work. Once that was solved, it was a pretty straightforward installation, just a bit of a tight space.

I installed this part to see if it has any influence on my car's annoying overrev behavior between WOT shifts (theory being the vent to atmosphere would starve the engine of the oxygen needed to perform the overrev). I haven't had a chance to really push it yet though, so I'll report more in a day or so. It does sound pretty cool though, without being that high pitched sound that some of the Japanese BOVs tend to make.

And to get ahead of any finger-waggers who say you can't run a BOV on a diverter valve engine without ruining the cats, I say I disagree. Will there be a rich condition between shifts? Maybe. Will it be any more harmful than the factory logic that dumps unburned fuel into the motor to produce pops and bangs? No...

More to come.

 

[elh0102]

Installed a Turbosmart BOV (100% vent to atmosphere) today, which was a bit more of a pain in the butt than it should have been given the supplied bolts would not work in one of the three mounting holes due to clearance issues, so I needed to source my own hex head bolt to make it work. Once that was solved, it was a pretty straightforward installation, just a bit of a tight space.

I installed this part to see if it has any influence on my car's annoying overrev behavior between WOT shifts (theory being the vent to atmosphere would starve the engine of the oxygen needed to perform the overrev). I haven't had a chance to really push it yet though, so I'll report more in a day or so. It does sound pretty cool though, without being that high pitched sound that some of the Japanese BOVs tend to make.

And to get ahead of any finger-waggers who say you can't run a BOV on a diverter valve engine without ruining the cats, I say I disagree. Will there be a rich condition between shifts? Maybe. Will it be any more harmful than the factory logic that dumps unburned fuel into the motor to produce pops and bangs? No...

More to come.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the Sport Plus setting does not introduce any additional unburned fuel into the exhaust, and that the difference is in the exhaust routing through the muffler system. This seems logical, as I would expect any additional emissions would be an issue. I'll try to find the source of that information, as it's been a while since I read about it.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the Sport Plus setting does not introduce any additional unburned fuel into the exhaust, and that the difference is in the exhaust routing through the muffler system. This seems logical, as I would expect any additional emissions would be an issue. I'll try to find the source of that information, as it's been a while since I read about it.

Sport plus introduces a touch more fuel and timing delay once the exhaust valve opens. The heat of the exhaust and catalytic converter rapidly ignites the tiny amount of fuel and it goes bang.

Since it's typically precat it doesn't dramatically raise emissions. Having drive modes is what let's manufacturers get away with such settings from emissions control point of view... It's like how some track specials come with a special key that dramatically bumps power for track use while sacrificing emissions, "only to be used off road."

If you remove the cat (I don't recommend this at all for street use and emissions), you further delay the timing, and add more fuel you'll shoot flames out the back.

 

[bisquick]

...

And to get ahead of any finger-waggers who say you can't run a BOV on a diverter valve engine without ruining the cats, I say I disagree. Will there be a rich condition between shifts? Maybe. Will it be any more harmful than the factory logic that dumps unburned fuel into the motor to produce pops and bangs? No...

More to come.

This is a curious statement. Why do you think the main players who are tuning these engines do not suggest (and even discourage) the use of BOV on these engines?

If there was no data to backup these opinions then it would directly discount their reputation and business.

 

[ashmostro]

This isn't my reason, but to counter your argument, Jester of Jester Tuned runs a BOV on his car.

 

[ABPDE5]

This is a curious statement. Why do you think the main players who are tuning these engines do not suggest (and even discourage) the use of BOV on these engines?

If there was no data to backup these opinions then it would directly discount their reputation and business.

The car measures incoming air prior to the blow-off valve. That calculation is used to determine appropriate levels of fuel, etc. If you don't recirculate the air from the blow-off valve, there will be a discrepancy between how much air the car expects to receive (measured pre blow-off valve) and how much air it actually receives (post blow-off valve). The discrepancy can lead to a rich condition, albeit likely very minor and for a very short period of time following a shift or lift-off. As mentioned, the excess fuel used to create pops / bangs does, too. It's unlikely to harm the car, but many tuners don't like the concept of "lying" to the ECU, which is understandable.

 

[ashmostro]

The car measures incoming air prior to the blow-off valve. That calculation is used to determine appropriate levels of fuel, etc. If you don't recirculate the air from the blow-off valve, there will be a discrepancy between how much air the car expects to receive (measured pre blow-off valve) and how much air it actually receives (post blow-off valve). The discrepancy can lead to a rich condition, albeit likely very minor and for a very short period of time following a shift or lift-off. As mentioned, the excess fuel used to create pops / bangs does, too. It's unlikely to harm the car, but many tuners don't like the concept of "lying" to the ECU, which is understandable.

All the above is true.

I just don't qualify it as a material concern for my own car.

 

[ABPDE5]

All the above is true.

I just don't qualify it as a material concern for my own car.

Yep -- 100% understand! I'd say "it won't harm the car", instead of "it's unlikely", but I'm sure there's one instance in 10,000 somewhere...

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