"Crunchiness" in all gears - normal or not?

[APBonABP]

So it seems to me that no matter how I shift, I inevitably feel what feels like the gear teeth engaging/rubbing (not quite a grind) through the shifter on what I'd say is about 70-80% of my gear changes. I've got around 4000 miles on it and it doesn't seem to have improved over time.

Now, I've read extensively about problems with 2nd gear specifically, and I've adjusted my CMC rod several times and even lengthened my clutch pedal throw after measuring it and finding it wasn't the correct height from the floor, at least as specified in the FL5 Type R service manual (I know, different car, but should be similar, right?).

Each time I adjust the CMC rod, the shifting gets better - but only for a little while, typically half an hour or so.

I've been making sure that the slave cylinder can still move after each adjustment and that there's still some free play in the pedal to allow the clutch to fully re-engage, but really the only time I've felt like the shifting is "normal" is when the CMC adjustment is so tight that the clutch slips slightly in higher gears, at which point I have to loosen the CMC rod again.

I've driven several other manual cars over the years and it's generally not been my experience, but they were also econoboxes where shifting was a function and "driver feedback" wasn't the focus.

So I guess my question is: is this "crunchiness" normal, should I take it to get looked at, or "git gud"?

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[acurax]

With a car thais new, why not just have Acura check it during routine service?

Here's the Integra's clutch pedal height specifications.

 

[DK 24LC ITS]

If you shift a little slower (pause at neutral before proceeding to the next gear) does the "grinding" go away?

Not that you want to, just as a test.

I do find my gears are crunchy if I try to speed shift, especially in 2nd.

 

[Dynodan]

My two cents is that it’s not normal, I’ve driven two De5 and the only difference was the clutch feel. Shifting was smooth on both. The only time i’ve encountered anything close, is when skipping gears or quick shifting. Take it in and have it checked out.

 

[APBonABP]

With a car thais new, why not just have Acura check it during routine service?

Here's the Integra's clutch pedal height specifications.

That matches what I found I the FL5 Type R service manual, so glad to know it's adjusted properly (it was around 3/4 of an inch too short from the factory when I measured). I haven't brought it in because I do my routine maintenance myself and the nearest dealership is over an hour away, so I've been trying to remedy it myself.

If you shift a little slower (pause at neutral before proceeding to the next gear) does the "grinding" go away?

Not that you want to, just as a test.

I do find my gears are crunchy if I try to speed shift, especially in 2nd.

Not really - I've tested waiting even up to a second or so after pushing in the clutch and it doesn't shift much better. Incidentally, the slower I move the actual shifter, the "crunchier" it feels, and higher RPM (shifting at 5k-6k) feels smoother than more relaxed driving (shifting at 3k-4k). It improves if I only shift with my fingertips, but I'd say even then about 40-50% of gear changes feel "crunchy".

My two cents is that it’s not normal, I’ve driven two De5 and the only difference was the clutch feel. Shifting was smooth on both. The only time i’ve encountered anything close, is when skipping gears or quick shifting. Take it in and have it checked out.

That was my thought as well because the ITS I test drove shifted much more smoothly from what I recall. But others who drive my car don't seem to notice it, so I wanted to rule out any of my behaviors or just the normal operation of the car before I brought it in.


Thanks everyone!

 

[steve chrosley]

I have had many manual transmission cars overvtge years. Both street cars and race cars. I have had everything from vettes, Miatas, RX7, Opel, GTI, BRZ etc. The transmission in my Type S is probably the most “notchy” trans mission i’ve ever driven. The second gear issue reminds me of what it was like when the sychro’s would go on a race car. And I only have 3500 miles on it. Really giving some thought of selling it. The trans in these cars are not good.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

When you say crunchy, how mechanical vs rubbery are you talking? Does it feel "small" like your knuckles popping or "large" like one of those penny crunching machines? Do you have any shifter mods? (different knob, bushings, etc)

 

[acurax]

I have had many manual transmission cars overvtge years. Both street cars and race cars. I have had everything from vettes, Miatas, RX7, Opel, GTI, BRZ etc. The transmission in my Type S is probably the most “notchy” trans mission i’ve ever driven. The second gear issue reminds me of what it was like when the sychro’s would go on a race car. And I only have 3500 miles on it. Really giving some thought of selling it. The trans in these cars are not good.

The notchy feeling is something I first experienced with the RSX Type-S w/ the 3rd gear grind and the occasional 3rd gear popping out of gear. I've not had a similar experience with my DE5 manual, unless I shifted too quickly/aggressively. I wonder if the clutch delay valve and clutch master cylinder delete might resolve this for you?

 

[mugendc4]

I know I had a bit of notchy feeling from 1>2 and 2>3 when it was new. I took it as a break-in period and overtime did get better. Have about 5k miles on it now and doesn't feel as bad. I had an 8thgen civic and always had a notchy feeling from 2>3.

If it's all gears for you, i'll take it to the dealer to take a look into it. Sometimes fresh fluid can fix it. I heard Redline or GM Synchromesh is pretty popular as well.

 

[APBonABP]

I have had many manual transmission cars overvtge years. Both street cars and race cars. I have had everything from vettes, Miatas, RX7, Opel, GTI, BRZ etc. The transmission in my Type S is probably the most “notchy” trans mission i’ve ever driven. The second gear issue reminds me of what it was like when the sychro’s would go on a race car. And I only have 3500 miles on it. Really giving some thought of selling it. The trans in these cars are not good.

I'm almost there myself, honestly. After this most recent adjustment I thought I'd solved it, but it came right back. When my CDC rod is adjusted to the point where the clutch can't fully re-engage, the actual shifting feels GREAT. It's a very satisfying ka-thunk and while you still can't just slam it into gear, the little bit of finesse it takes to slot it into gear is very satisfying. But then the clutch slips, so that's no good.

When you say crunchy, how mechanical vs rubbery are you talking? Does it feel "small" like your knuckles popping or "large" like one of those penny crunching machines? Do you have any shifter mods? (different knob, bushings, etc)

I'd liken it to a metal rod shifting through gravel. It's quite tactile-y unpleasant as compared to when it shifts properly, which is a very definite ka-thunk. To try and alleviate the issue I added first a weighted shift knob, which didn't help, and the Acuity adjustable shifter, which also hasn't helped. It's currently set up at a slightly lower than stock height with the throw and gate spacing set near stock. I've tried the A, B, and C mounting positions as well, it's currently in the middle (I think that's B).

The notchy feeling is something I first experienced with the RSX Type-S w/ the 3rd gear grind and the occasional 3rd gear popping out of gear. I've not had a similar experience with my DE5 manual, unless I shifted too quickly/aggressively. I wonder if the clutch delay valve and clutch master cylinder delete might resolve this for you?

I've been hesitant to do a CDV delete because as I understand it, the CDV should only be a one-way fluid restriction and should only slow the engagement of the clutch, not the disengagement - but I'm not an expert by any means.

I know I had a bit of notchy feeling from 1>2 and 2>3 when it was new. I took it as a break-in period and overtime did get better. Have about 5k miles on it now and doesn't feel as bad. I had an 8thgen civic and always had a notchy feeling from 2>3.

If it's all gears for you, i'll take it to the dealer to take a look into it. Sometimes fresh fluid can fix it. I heard Redline or GM Synchromesh is pretty popular as well.

Yeah, I'd say it's all gears, and it's pretty random. I feel like I can shift the same way twice and get a really nice shift one time and then gravel the next, and I've waited a bit to see if it improved but at about 4k miles I'd think it should be pretty good by now, but maybe that's an unrealistic expectation? I'm not sure.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I'm almost there myself, honestly. After this most recent adjustment I thought I'd solved it, but it came right back. When my CDC rod is adjusted to the point where the clutch can't fully re-engage, the actual shifting feels GREAT. It's a very satisfying ka-thunk and while you still can't just slam it into gear, the little bit of finesse it takes to slot it into gear is very satisfying. But then the clutch slips, so that's no good.




I'd liken it to a metal rod shifting through gravel. It's quite tactile-y unpleasant as compared to when it shifts properly, which is a very definite ka-thunk. To try and alleviate the issue I added first a weighted shift knob, which didn't help, and the Acuity adjustable shifter, which also hasn't helped. It's currently set up at a slightly lower than stock height with the throw and gate spacing set near stock. I've tried the A, B, and C mounting positions as well, it's currently in the middle (I think that's B).




I've been hesitant to do a CDV delete because as I understand it, the CDV should only be a one-way fluid restriction and should only slow the engagement of the clutch, not the disengagement - but I'm not an expert by any means.




Yeah, I'd say it's all gears, and it's pretty random. I feel like I can shift the same way twice and get a really nice shift one time and then gravel the next, and I've waited a bit to see if it improved but at about 4k miles I'd think it should be pretty good by now, but maybe that's an unrealistic expectation? I'm not sure.

Have you done the linkage bushings? Or traced the cables at all?

Your "crunchy" feeling is in the shifter as you're describing it right? Not the clutch pedal...?

 

[APBonABP]

Have you done the linkage bushings? Or traced the cables at all?

Your "crunchy" feeling is in the shifter as you're describing it right? Not the clutch pedal...?

Yeah, not the clutch pedal, that's pretty much okay. I didn't do the bushings as the consensus seemed to be that they didn't make a massive difference and were somewhat tedious to install. I didn't trace the cable, but I wouldn't be sure what to look for. It doesn't seem to be hitting any snags from what I can see in the center console when I had it apart, and I don't notice the "crunchiness" when the engine isn't running, if that helps.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Yeah, not the clutch pedal, that's pretty much okay. I didn't do the bushings as the consensus seemed to be that they didn't make a massive difference and were somewhat tedious to install. I didn't trace the cable, but I wouldn't be sure what to look for. It doesn't seem to be hitting any snags from what I can see in the center console when I had it apart, and I don't notice the "crunchiness" when the engine isn't running, if that helps.

Yeah, from your description it sounds more like some sort of vibration coming through. Do you have any way to reproduce it consistently?

Fun fact, I had a random 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gear grind that randomly appeared after an oil change. Then I realized it wasn't a grind, it was a rattle. Jacked up the car and realized the dealer people forgot to put a bolt back in the belly pan and that resulted in a weird and random rattle/grind feeling that would occur between shifts and around 30-40mph...

Yours doesn't sound like mine, but it does sound more rattle like than gear crunch.

 

[ABPDE5]

Hard to tell exactly what you're experiencing based on posting here, unfortunately. The transmission in this car can feel a little crunchy in my experience. In my case, swapping transmission fluid eliminated a lot of it.

If you are just experiencing some "feedback" crunchiness, and you don't have issues going into gear or popping out of gear, I wouldn't stress about it too much. That said, I would not mess with the CDV or damper if you're currently having anxiety over the transmission, as that will likely void warranty. The transmission is covered for 6 years / 70k... if I were you, and I was anxious about the transmission, I'd make the most of the coverage I paid for when I bought the car and spend the rest of the warranty period waiting to see of there's actually ever a serious sign of malfunction beyond some "crunchy" feedback.

Change the fluid, drive the car, wait to see if you encounter more definitive symptoms of a mechanical issue, and if you get close to the end of the warranty period and still feel anxious, make a decision then.

 

[Brittania]

Mine's always a little "crunchy" until it warms up. Once it warms up and I beat on it a lil, it gets nice.

I changed transmission fluid at 10k with OEM fluid which made a nice improvement. Changed again at 23k with AC Delco synchromesh and it's like pure butter. 2nd gear hesitation is almost gone too.

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