Test drove a BMW M240i today

[Victorofhavoc]

Okay, I have to claim some ignorance here, as all my previous track experience was in various RWD cars. But it sounds like you are referring to the technique that I knew as trail braking. You stay on the brakes past turn-in, and at some point between there and the apex, you lift off the brakes and squeeze on throttle. This helps with the rotation in cars prone to understeer. I used it to good effect in an E92 M3 with DCT. When dealing with 3 pedals, it is more challenging.

Correct!!

Getting it right is fine tuning the brake release to get a smooth rounded peak. Trail braking is part of it, but also it's how smoothly you release the brake (also why brake pads like gloc and carbotech are famous for their "brake release characteristics"). Sweepers are the best place to demonstrate and practice the technique because that's where you spend the most amount of time slowly releasing the brake and the longest time without any pedal input. A neutral chassis like the type s responds well to medium brake or lift off because of the fore-aft balance. Understeer prone cars like corvettes and 911s require more brake input, but can also take throttle input way earlier. Oversteer prone cars like the 86 need much smoother brake release to maintain balance. Generally speaking, the fastest cars are the rwd ones that tend to understeer a bit because you can get on power sooner.

The "shark fin" on a speed chart is what you're looking for to identify how smooth that brake release characteristic was. The screenshot below is from a lap I did at hallet earlier this year. It's a little lumpy because GPS was acting up from heavy cloud cover, but the areas I highlighted in yellow are good examples of what I'm typically looking for. Speed charts are awesome! You come off track and in literally one glance you know how well you did and how "smooth" you were.

Edit, dropped the wrong screencap. Here's the right one

Sponsored

 

[ashmostro]

I've been thinking of trading or selling the ITS and getting another BMW or Porsche, which have been my primary cars for a long time. Today I drove a new M240i, and I was disappointed. It had plenty of power, and handled well, but the overall driving experience was very detached, it just did not provide a minimum level of driver involvement. I never thought I would feel that way in comparing a front driver to a BMW sports sedan, but there it is. Honda has done a great job in developing this drivetrain. To me, it feels almost on a level with the Porsche Cayman, which is saying a lot. Obviously, front drive, rear drive, and mid engine cars all have their specific handling dynamics. But is one clearly superior? I'm no longer sure.

Same bro.

Sold two BMWs (M550 and M4cs) and bought the ITS and couldn't be happier with the change. Sooooo much more exciting.

 

[bullitt]

I feel like the CTR/ITS, S3, GT350 and Raptor Ranger all set a bar for their class that is nearly impossible of the competition to do anything more than either simply meet with their next generations or BARELY surpass to such a small amount that their future price just will make the current gen of these cars look an even better deal.

For example, the GT350 came out and set a bar the following Mach1 came just short of while asking a similar price, and the much newer Dark Horse is barely on par with but for its price makes the used GT350 look like a steal in comparison.

 

[optronix]

I feel like the CTR/ITS, S3, GT350 and Raptor Ranger all set a bar for their class that is nearly impossible of the competition to do anything more than either simply meet with their next generations or BARELY surpass to such a small amount that their future price just will make the current gen of these cars look an even better deal.

For example, the GT350 came out and set a bar the following Mach1 came just short of while asking a similar price, and the much newer Dark Horse is barely on par with but for its price makes the used GT350 look like a steal in comparison.

Curious what your thought process is with the S3.

I had one for quite some time and thoroughly enjoyed owning it... but it just simply can't even sniff the Integra Type S from a driving dynamics perspective.

Yes, it's fun to drive- it's got a punchy engine and a smooth operating dual-clutch transmission. The dimensions are great, it looks classy as hell, the interior is about as perfect as you can get... but it isn't the type of car I'd wake up early to go on a backroads drive with.

It was a perfect car for me at the time- as a daily driver augmentation to a manual 981 Boxster GTS. In fact, that combination of cars was probably the best situation I've ever been in- even better than the manual 991.2 911 Carrera S and B9 S4 I had for 6 months or so because I was still missing an open-air option. The S3 is more fun to drive than the S4, but the S4 is far more powerful and has massaging seats lol.

I truly miss the S3 for what it was- a nearly perfect daily driver- but I would virtually never choose an S3 over an ITS if they were parked next to each other in my driveway.

 

[bullitt]

Curious what your thought process is with the S3.

I had one for quite some time and thoroughly enjoyed owning it... but it just simply can't even sniff the Integra Type S from a driving dynamics perspective.

Yes, it's fun to drive- it's got a punchy engine and a smooth operating dual-clutch transmission. The dimensions are great, it looks classy as hell, the interior is about as perfect as you can get... but it isn't the type of car I'd wake up early to go on a backroads drive with.

It was a perfect car for me at the time- as a daily driver augmentation to a manual 981 Boxster GTS. In fact, that combination of cars was probably the best situation I've ever been in- even better than the manual 991.2 911 Carrera S and B9 S4 I had for 6 months or so because I was still missing an open-air option. The S3 is more fun to drive than the S4, but the S4 is far more powerful and has massaging seats lol.

I truly miss the S3 for what it was- a nearly perfect daily driver- but I would virtually never choose an S3 over an ITS if they were parked next to each other in my driveway.

I'm more comparing it to other smaller AWD sedans like the Golf R, and M235. To do better than it for the price you either need to modify the R or M235, or step up to a much more pricy S5, RS3, M340. The S4 isn't made anymore, and the new S3 refresh is just about on par with it and has the RS3's rear diff setup.

 

[UWU-mancer]

The s3 being a McPherson front. It would do best with tires and negative 1.8 or so front and rear camber. You’ll also want to do that thing to the coding thingy to the haldex to make it more “active”

it and the golf r aren’t on the same level as the type r and type s

but to be fair. That’s not what the s3 was built for. Totally different purpose

 

[Ronnie M.]

There's not really anything I don't like about the car anymore. I've even gotten completely over the rattles (which are pervasive, especially after the exhaust). The car is as close to perfect as I can get for my use case, at any price- point blank period.

Same... even the seats are fine, lol. I'd like a little more bolstering for the track but whatever.

The rest of your post sums up exactly my feelings up to now with the car, especially after having taken it to the track for a weekend completely stock (I was blown away)

 

[elh0102]

Since starting this thread I drove an M2, MT. I found that driving experience far superior to the M240i. Compared to the ITS, obviously more power, better seats, more features, rwd dynamics, etc. Other than price, my only gripe is the weight, and you just can't hide it. Not that it's ponderous by any means, but it's not as agile and communicative as a lighter car. For casual track use, where its hp and speed can be used, the weight might not be an issue. As with most street cars, serious track use would take a toll on brakes, tires, suspension, etc., and weight adds to such things. Absent track use, as a street car where performance parameters are limited to some favorite country roads and freeway ramps, I think the ITS is a very good option.

 

[Tw1stedlog1k]

I'm assuming you drove the G87 M2 but the previous generation F87 is a more nimble and snappy car than its replacement, with the OG being even lighter than the Competition and CS models (though a little down on power).

Despite this, ALL M2s (short of a CS R) are still, far and away, less engaging than the ITS in normal driving situations. The ITS is at the crest of useable/enjoyable street performance with track-ready chops to boot. I feel M2s clearly cross that line and can feel a bit dull in the day-to-day, they *need* to be wrung out a bit to be enjoyed and of course their limits are much higher as well.

 

[UWU-mancer]

Not a fan of the M2’s manual. It’s such a crazy thing to say but the its manual feels better. The m2 has slop

what’s cool. For about 800$ U can make the m2 manual feel awesome. And for even more U can make it feel godly!

 

[ashmostro]

I'm assuming you drove the G87 M2 but the previous generation F87 is a more nimble and snappy car than its replacement, with the OG being even lighter than the Competition and CS models (though a little down on power).

Despite this, ALL M2s (short of a CS R) are still, far and away, less engaging than the ITS in normal driving situations. The ITS is at the crest of useable/enjoyable street performance with track-ready chops to boot. I feel M2s clearly cross that line and can feel a bit dull in the day-to-day, they *need* to be wrung out a bit to be enjoyed and of course their limits are much higher as well.

Could not have said it better myself. And I owned an F87 M2cs.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Since starting this thread I drove an M2, MT. I found that driving experience far superior to the M240i. Compared to the ITS, obviously more power, better seats, more features, rwd dynamics, etc. Other than price, my only gripe is the weight, and you just can't hide it. Not that it's ponderous by any means, but it's not as agile and communicative as a lighter car. For casual track use, where its hp and speed can be used, the weight might not be an issue. As with most street cars, serious track use would take a toll on brakes, tires, suspension, etc., and weight adds to such things. Absent track use, as a street car where performance parameters are limited to some favorite country roads and freeway ramps, I think the ITS is a very good option.

On track the new M2s weight is extremely apparent. It can keep a good pace, but I wouldn't use it all the time. It's in the same level of "occasional track toy" that a factory its is in, which for a track car is also very porky... Regardless of what mustang and camaro drivers say.

 

[elh0102]

On track the new M2s weight is extremely apparent. It can keep a good pace, but I wouldn't use it all the time. It's in the same level of "occasional track toy" that a factory its is in, which for a track car is also very porky... Regardless of what mustang and camaro drivers say.

I'm sure you're right about the M2. However, I'm not sure that I could say that the ITS feels porky. As with almost any street car, it would need work for regular track use, and it's going to have front drive dynamics, but I'm not sure that it feels overly burdened by weight. But lighter is better, no doubt about it.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I'm sure you're right about the M2. However, I'm not sure that I could say that the ITS feels porky. As with almost any street car, it would need work for regular track use, and it's going to have front drive dynamics, but I'm not sure that it feels overly burdened by weight. But lighter is better, no doubt about it.

At roughly 3245lbs on scale for minimum weight check (after all trunk equipment and back seats were pulled, but with driver) it's almost in the "full pork" category. In fact, for time trial use I'm considering dropping to a more aggressive tire and leaving the weight at the full pork 3301lbs+ for the added power bump benefit of using a "heavy car".

3300lbs is not heavy for a road car, but this car doesn't strip a ton of weight by doing normal track prep stuff (seats, carpet, trim, cage it) because the interior is all thin/light plastic and acura has already done a lot of weight stripping. Even the seats are super lightweight compared to the space they occupy. All in, I doubt you can get this car below 3000lbs in full track prep with cage. Compared to my z which was at 2815lbs with a cage, it's hulking. A gutted mustang with a cage can touch 3100lbs because of all the fluff weight you can shed. A gutted 86 can easily be 2500 range and a gutted miata can be 2000.

 

[elh0102]

At roughly 3245lbs on scale for minimum weight check (after all trunk equipment and back seats were pulled, but with driver) it's almost in the "full pork" category. In fact, for time trial use I'm considering dropping to a more aggressive tire and leaving the weight at the full pork 3301lbs+ for the added power bump benefit of using a "heavy car".

3300lbs is not heavy for a road car, but this car doesn't strip a ton of weight by doing normal track prep stuff (seats, carpet, trim, cage it) because the interior is all thin/light plastic and acura has already done a lot of weight stripping. Even the seats are super lightweight compared to the space they occupy. All in, I doubt you can get this car below 3000lbs in full track prep with cage. Compared to my z which was at 2815lbs with a cage, it's hulking. A gutted mustang with a cage can touch 3100lbs because of all the fluff weight you can shed. A gutted 86 can easily be 2500 range and a gutted miata can be 2000.

Yes, all valid. I apologize, as I wasn't attempting to compare a stock ITS with fully track prepped cars. I agree, there is no comparison there. As I recall, I think my 996 series GT3 weighed a bit under 3,000 pounds. It didn't have a ton of power, but that relatively light weight, a great suspension, and tremendous brakes made it a delight on track.

Sponsored