DSC Sport Suspension Module for our cars!

[Y0jjimb0]

Is anyone using this paired with Swift springs yet?

Are the spring rates close enough to other lowering springs to utilize the same preset damping settings?

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[bisquick]

Is anyone using this paired with Swift springs yet?

Are the spring rates close enough to other lowering springs to utilize the same preset damping settings?

I found that the OOTB file that comes with the module to be insufficient for my needs. It required a lot of fine tuning but I haven’t updated the comfort file since my last revision in March.

I shared all my revisions here which you can scroll back to and grab a file as your starting point.

 

[Y0jjimb0]

So I have a couple questions for you guys. I may need to chat with someone from DSC but I figured other people here might have similar questions and/or be able to answer.

-Does the model allow you to change all of the options for the different modes, or just the damper tuning specifically? Could I make it so that every mode utilizes the comfort steering, but only changes the damper and throttle tuning? Or do I have to use individual mode for that?

-Someone mentioned DSC being able to tune the dampers to mimic a stiffer rear sway bar; could I use 'sport' as a street tuned set up and then have 'sport+' be basically the same but have the rear dampers mimic a stiffer rear spring rate to aid with rotation on track or in the canyons?

I like a stiffer rear spring on track, but I still want to be able to have passengers and my kid in the back without bouncing them around everywhere when street driving. This will probably be the deciding factor between choosing Swift springs or Spoon springs.

I like the higher rear spring rate of the Swifts, but I'm worried it will compromise the ride quality too much. The progressive spring rate of the Spoon springs would be nice for ride comfort, but I enjoy the handling feel a linear spring. I either want to be able to stiffen the rear with the damper settings if I use the Spoons, or have the higher spring rate of the Swifts be sufficient managed by the dampers if I use those. I don't mind a high spring rate if the damper is good enough to manage the ride. I have crazy spring rates in my E46 M3, but the MCS dampers are so good that the ride is still streetable.

FWIW I just got my ITS and did my first canyon drive it. Sport+ was pretty useful on the smooth stuff but got a little bouncy on the roughest sections. Sport was best suited for the variable road surfaces.

 

[bisquick]

So I have a couple questions for you guys. I may need to chat with someone from DSC but I figured other people here might have similar questions and/or be able to answer.

-Does the model allow you to change all of the options for the different modes, or just the damper tuning specifically? Could I make it so that every mode utilizes the comfort steering, but only changes the damper and throttle tuning? Or do I have to use individual mode for that?

-Someone mentioned DSC being able to tune the dampers to mimic a stiffer rear sway bar; could I use 'sport' as a street tuned set up and then have 'sport+' be basically the same but have the rear dampers mimic a stiffer rear spring rate to aid with rotation on track or in the canyons?

I like a stiffer rear spring on track, but I still want to be able to have passengers and my kid in the back without bouncing them around everywhere when street driving. This will probably be the deciding factor between choosing Swift springs or Spoon springs.

I like the higher rear spring rate of the Swifts, but I'm worried it will compromise the ride quality too much. The progressive spring rate of the Spoon springs would be nice for ride comfort, but I enjoy the handling feel a linear spring. I either want to be able to stiffen the rear with the damper settings if I use the Spoons, or have the higher spring rate of the Swifts be sufficient managed by the dampers if I use those. I don't mind a high spring rate if the damper is good enough to manage the ride. I have crazy spring rates in my E46 M3, but the MCS dampers are so good that the ride is still streetable.

FWIW I just got my ITS and did my first canyon drive it. Sport+ was pretty useful on the smooth stuff but got a little bouncy on the roughest sections. Sport was best suited for the variable road surfaces.

There are no constraints that limit your ability to make the parameters the same for all drive modes; you have full creative liberty.

That being said, you cannot adjust the steering resistance or throttle sensitivity with the DSC sport controller. Those settings are hard coded to the drive mode which is not influenced by the suspension module.

You can adjust the g-force table to mimic a stiffer sway bar across the rear struts. It wont be a 1:1 comparison with an actual sway bar but can get you mostly there.

In the application you there is help screen which provides valuable information for each tab in the application. You should read through all the documentation and watch some of DSC videos to get acclimated.

AI has been a huge help in understanding which adjustments, and their values, should be made to reach your goal.

Happy tuning!

 

[Y0jjimb0]

There are no constraints that limit your ability to make the parameters the same for all drive modes; you have full creative liberty.

That being said, you cannot adjust the steering resistance or throttle sensitivity with the DSC sport controller. Those settings are hard coded to the drive mode which is not influenced by the suspension module.

You can adjust the g-force table to mimic a stiffer sway bar across the rear struts. It wont be a 1:1 comparison with an actual sway bar but can get you mostly there.

In the application you there is help screen which provides valuable information for each tab in the application. You should read through all the documentation and watch some of DSC videos to get acclimated.

AI has been a huge help in understanding which adjustments, and their values, should be made to reach your goal.

Happy tuning!

Ok that clears up the ability to adjust the drive modes, thank you.

I'll dive into the explanation videos.

 

[optronix]

I have more hard data from autocross to share.

TL;DR, Comfort mode far outperforms Sport+ for the OOTB DSC maps on bumpy lots. This was at Summit Point, the skidpad area, which is a notoriously uneven surface. Sport+ setting was noticeably too choppy; it wasn't uncontrollable but I dialed it back to Sport - better, and then Comfort- best. I captured some video evidence this time; the one run on Sport I forgot to hit record but I did grab the initial run on Sport+ and then by fastest run which was on Comfort.

Sport+; this was an early run- 2 out of 7- but the time was still pretty solid. I was at about 9.5/10ths as I was still sort of figuring out the course but still plenty of evidence recorded:



And here's run 7, obviously more familiar with the course by now but still noticeably the dampers soak up the rough spots significantly better:



Next week I'll be on a much smoother lot, where I usually leave it in Sport+ every run. I'll experiment there too though.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

So I have a couple questions for you guys. I may need to chat with someone from DSC but I figured other people here might have similar questions and/or be able to answer.

-Does the model allow you to change all of the options for the different modes, or just the damper tuning specifically? Could I make it so that every mode utilizes the comfort steering, but only changes the damper and throttle tuning? Or do I have to use individual mode for that?

-Someone mentioned DSC being able to tune the dampers to mimic a stiffer rear sway bar; could I use 'sport' as a street tuned set up and then have 'sport+' be basically the same but have the rear dampers mimic a stiffer rear spring rate to aid with rotation on track or in the canyons?

I like a stiffer rear spring on track, but I still want to be able to have passengers and my kid in the back without bouncing them around everywhere when street driving. This will probably be the deciding factor between choosing Swift springs or Spoon springs.

I like the higher rear spring rate of the Swifts, but I'm worried it will compromise the ride quality too much. The progressive spring rate of the Spoon springs would be nice for ride comfort, but I enjoy the handling feel a linear spring. I either want to be able to stiffen the rear with the damper settings if I use the Spoons, or have the higher spring rate of the Swifts be sufficient managed by the dampers if I use those. I don't mind a high spring rate if the damper is good enough to manage the ride. I have crazy spring rates in my E46 M3, but the MCS dampers are so good that the ride is still streetable.

FWIW I just got my ITS and did my first canyon drive it. Sport+ was pretty useful on the smooth stuff but got a little bouncy on the roughest sections. Sport was best suited for the variable road surfaces.

Someone else answered a lot of your questions.

Just a note, this has the dual axis design front but it's still a mcstrut front and multilink rear. If you lower your car, the rear spring rate needs to go significantly higher than front to keep in proportion for handling balance.

You're correct that spring rate doesn't dictate comfort as much as shock, but you're overlooking the strut design in this car. Mcstrut is compromised for travel, so regardless of dampening, there's only so much range you can afford.

You're right a stiff bar ruins comfort. It controls lateral spring rate, but does nothing for longitudinal. The shock compression rate handles longitudinal and the compression and rebound for lateral. That helps for both acceleration and corner grip, but it still needs to match the spring rate or things get bouncy. There honestly isn't much range to go stiffer before you get overly bouncy. The Fl5 stiffest setting is already borderline too stiff unless you're on a true super 200 or 100tw tire. Makes sense for the cup2 they offer.

 

[Y0jjimb0]

Someone else answered a lot of your questions.

Just a note, this has the dual axis design front but it's still a mcstrut front and multilink rear. If you lower your car, the rear spring rate needs to go significantly higher than front to keep in proportion for handling balance.

You're correct that spring rate doesn't dictate comfort as much as shock, but you're overlooking the strut design in this car. Mcstrut is compromised for travel, so regardless of dampening, there's only so much range you can afford.

You're right a stiff bar ruins comfort. It controls lateral spring rate, but does nothing for longitudinal. The shock compression rate handles longitudinal and the compression and rebound for lateral. That helps for both acceleration and corner grip, but it still needs to match the spring rate or things get bouncy. There honestly isn't much range to go stiffer before you get overly bouncy. The Fl5 stiffest setting is already borderline too stiff unless you're on a true super 200 or 100tw tire. Makes sense for the cup2 they offer.

Ok that makes sense.

It seems like the springs rates available for lowering springs are all over the place. Some increase the rear more than the front but some don't. I'm leaning towards the Eibach pro-kit at this point.

@optronix can you remind me which springs you are on?

 

[optronix]

Ok that makes sense.

It seems like the springs rates available for lowering springs are all over the place. Some increase the rear more than the front but some don't. I'm leaning towards the Eibach pro-kit at this point.

@optronix can you remind me which springs you are on?

Eibach Pro-Kit.

The DSC coupled with Eibach feels good to me; I like the way the car is set up. I just feel like it would be even better with a true coilover; but I think I'm once again pivoting away from that. It would just make the car even more unruly on the street- which ultimately is what I need this car to do well.

Also- my whole calculus is being disrupted as I type this. I am HEAVILY AND DEEPLY considering buying a Miata, and it could happen as early as this week. That will dramatically change the trajectory of what I do to this car- as I mentioned, between the camber, the tires, the springs and the exhaust it's probably past the point I ideally want it for drivability already, and all my future plans involved making it even worse- all for what, going a few tenths faster around a parking lot?

I'm realizing I do not want to live my life 40-60 seconds at a time... at least not with this car.

Besides, it's already really fuckin fast, and very fun- that last run they say I hit a cone but I think they're lying. It would have netted me 8th for raw times that day and there were some fast MF'ers out there. But... if I were to really stretch it and "go for gold" in BST I would pretty much definitely need to do coilovers, and I'm just not there mentally.

 

[UWU-mancer]

Eibach Pro-Kit.

The DSC coupled with Eibach feels good to me; I like the way the car is set up. I just feel like it would be even better with a true coilover; but I think I'm once again pivoting away from that. It would just make the car even more unruly on the street- which ultimately is what I need this car to do well.

Also- my whole calculus is being disrupted as I type this. I am HEAVILY AND DEEPLY considering buying a Miata, and it could happen as early as this week. That will dramatically change the trajectory of what I do to this car- as I mentioned, between the camber, the tires, the springs and the exhaust it's probably past the point I ideally want it for drivability already, and all my future plans involved making it even worse- all for what, going a few tenths faster around a parking lot?

I'm realizing I do not want to live my life 40-60 seconds at a time... at least not with this car.

Besides, it's already really fuckin fast, and very fun- that last run they say I hit a cone but I think they're lying. It would have netted me 8th for raw times that day and there were some fast MF'ers out there. But... if I were to really stretch it and "go for gold" in BST I would pretty much definitely need to do coilovers, and I'm just not there mentally.

An nd3 with club?

test drove an rf nd3 with club. Amazing how it makes U feel like U need to slow down cuz you’re going 30 over the speed limit. Then U look at the speedometer and you’re right at the speed limit

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Eibach Pro-Kit.

The DSC coupled with Eibach feels good to me; I like the way the car is set up. I just feel like it would be even better with a true coilover; but I think I'm once again pivoting away from that. It would just make the car even more unruly on the street- which ultimately is what I need this car to do well.

Also- my whole calculus is being disrupted as I type this. I am HEAVILY AND DEEPLY considering buying a Miata, and it could happen as early as this week. That will dramatically change the trajectory of what I do to this car- as I mentioned, between the camber, the tires, the springs and the exhaust it's probably past the point I ideally want it for drivability already, and all my future plans involved making it even worse- all for what, going a few tenths faster around a parking lot?

I'm realizing I do not want to live my life 40-60 seconds at a time... at least not with this car.

Besides, it's already really fuckin fast, and very fun- that last run they say I hit a cone but I think they're lying. It would have netted me 8th for raw times that day and there were some fast MF'ers out there. But... if I were to really stretch it and "go for gold" in BST I would pretty much definitely need to do coilovers, and I'm just not there mentally.

Yeah, this is just not the car to go to that level or prep.

Harsh reality people need to hear: this platform is extremely limited as far as making it faster around a track is concerned. Beyond tires and brakes, you will fight to save a few seconds over 2 minutes and you will ruin it as a daily driver. It already has no compression travel in front and big curbs send you flying. Any actual sports car with a 4x spring rate would ride over the same curbs as if they're not there. Making it stiffer, lower, and less street friendly from an already aggressive setup is going to quickly turn it into a track only car that's dangerous on the street.

Here's the reality to that harshness, though: the oem made a killer driver's car. It's pretty perfect as is. I don't like the tire it's on for track use, so my setup is changing to fit the tire's needs, but there's nothing else worth fiddling with to make it go faster, and I really believe most other things you do to it will really make it go slower. It is an extremely well sorted car from the factory!

I ran a 1.31 at hallet on a potenza race tire in the wet. I could do that in 1.27 dry for sure, maybe 1.26. If I move to a hoho R7 it would put me within spitting distance of 1.21s and that's what I ran in a properly prepped racecar on that track with a slightly higher pwr to wt. That's stupid impressive out of a factory car... Outlandishly impressive even

 

[optronix]

Yeah, this is just not the car to go to that level or prep.

Harsh reality people need to hear: this platform is extremely limited as far as making it faster around a track is concerned. Beyond tires and brakes, you will fight to save a few seconds over 2 minutes and you will ruin it as a daily driver. It already has no compression travel in front and big curbs send you flying. Any actual sports car with a 4x spring rate would ride over the same curbs as if they're not there. Making it stiffer, lower, and less street friendly from an already aggressive setup is going to quickly turn it into a track only car that's dangerous on the street.

Here's the reality to that harshness, though: the oem made a killer driver's car. It's pretty perfect as is. I don't like the tire it's on for track use, so my setup is changing to fit the tire's needs, but there's nothing else worth fiddling with to make it go faster, and I really believe most other things you do to it will really make it go slower. It is an extremely well sorted car from the factory!

I ran a 1.31 at hallet on a potenza race tire in the wet. I could do that in 1.27 dry for sure, maybe 1.26. If I move to a hoho R7 it would put me within spitting distance of 1.21s and that's what I ran in a properly prepped racecar on that track with a slightly higher pwr to wt. That's stupid impressive out of a factory car... Outlandishly impressive even

Agreed completely. It's so great from the factory it's really far easier to mess it up than make it better. I just couldn't deal with the stock ride height, that's what landed me here lol. The DSC is the perfect counter to that (on top of camber- both necessary on a lowered DE5/FL5 IMHO). But I think I've pretty much hit my limit with my tolerance and talent. I don't think I'm going to be trophying in this car regardless what further mods I do to it, especially given the class it runs in with M2s and Supras. So my goal of just having fun and embarrassing Porsches is already met. I will probably dial the camber back a bit now and enjoy the bridgestones while they last, and eventually transition to the Miata as the primary motorsports car (hopefully learning a bit about my driving as I get pwned in C street).

That said, to your point I will probably want to keep some 200TW tires around in case I get the urge to take it out to an HPDE or two. It is ENORMOUSLY fun on a race track with how easy it is to feel like a superhero driver.

 

[bisquick]

Alright people, BIG updates! I've been patient and let the last revision settle in for a few months. The comfort settings were plush but so much so that I lost steering feel and introduced unsafe levels of rebound. At highway speeds, the car was too floaty for my liking which sent me back to the drawing board.

One challenge I've had with the software is the ability to properly interpret the datalogs without using the DSC software. For those of you that know, you must have the computer connected to the module to read the datalogs. This doesn't work well for me so instead I setup to create application to do the interpretation.

What I'm calling Data Analyzer is still a work in progress, but here are a few snapshots of what to expect:

I plan to eventually package this and offer for others to test at some point in the future.

You can find my revised file here: Comfort Baseline v5.0

My Setup
Springs: Eibach Sportline
Sway Bar: RV6 (middle settings)
Wheels & Tires: Gruppe Wheels, Continental ContactSport 02 (275/35/r19)

GForce Tab

Default Value	6.0
Offset	30.0
Sensitivity	20
G Rate Max	25

Velocity Tab

	Cmp-High	Cmp-Med	Cmp-Low	0	Reb-Low	Reb-Med	Reb-High
LF	18.0	-6.0	-9.0	0.0	0.0	18.0	15.0
RF	18.0	-6.0	-9.0	0.0	0.0	18.0	15.0
LR	10.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	16.0	15.0
RR	10.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	16.0	15.0

Shock Calibration Tab
Reverted back to stock: 10ma-300ma (interpolated)

 

[wontondon]

Alright people, BIG updates! I've been patient and let the last revision settle in for a few months. The comfort settings were plush but so much so that I lost steering feel and introduced unsafe levels of rebound. At highway speeds, the car was too floaty for my liking which sent me back to the drawing board.

One challenge I've had with the software is the ability to properly interpret the datalogs without using the DSC software. For those of you that know, you must have the computer connected to the module to read the datalogs. This doesn't work well for me so instead I setup to create application to do the interpretation.

What I'm calling Data Analyzer is still a work in progress, but here are a few snapshots of what to expect:

I plan to eventually package this and offer for others to test at some point in the future.

You can find my revised file here: Comfort Baseline v5.0

My Setup
Springs: Eibach Sportline
Sway Bar: RV6 (middle settings)
Wheels & Tires: Gruppe Wheels, Continental ContactSport 02 (275/35/r19)

GForce Tab

Default Value	6.0
Offset	30.0
Sensitivity	20
G Rate Max	25

Velocity Tab

	Cmp-High	Cmp-Med	Cmp-Low	0	Reb-Low	Reb-Med	Reb-High
LF	18.0	-6.0	-9.0	0.0	0.0	18.0	15.0
RF	18.0	-6.0	-9.0	0.0	0.0	18.0	15.0
LR	10.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	16.0	15.0
RR	10.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	16.0	15.0

Shock Calibration Tab
Reverted back to stock: 10ma-300ma (interpolated)

Thank you for all this. Even at stock height I've recently found sport mode to be preferable to comfort because comfort just feels sloppy at times. Looking forward to further development.

 

[Tw1stedlog1k]

I want to chime in and say that I sincerely appreciate your commitment to this @bisquick. The amount of time effort you've committed to this is admirable!

That being said, I love the DSC controller and the OTS map. It could absolutely use some fine tuning for everyone's individual preferences but it's 90% of the way "there" right out of the box. When I'm on longer highway drives I do notice a bit of floatiness over road undulations in comfort but it hasn't bothered me enough to dial it in more. I do love having the option for it whenever I'm ready to jump in.

Overall a fantastic product even for a street driven car like mine.

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