Auto Rev Match Interfering with Upshifts

[creaturemachine]

If rev match is cheating, I couldn't care at all about playing by the rules. It feels so good railing downshifts all day long and not once mis-timing the blip. I don't care if my pedals aren't ideal for perfect heel-toe because I don't have to. In fact the only vehicle I owned that I could reliably do them in was my 1985 Ford Ranger, and I was certainly not going anywhere quick in that thing. I've trained myself to go off the brake to tap the throttle, so having rev matching means I don't have to do that anymore, and my driving is much smoother and safer.

Besides, I know people who've driven stick all their lives and don't even know what rev-matching is or why you'd do it. They just drag the engine up to speed with the clutch and use it as a brake. They're no less of a driver for not learning some trick, really meant for retaining traction in racing, that the "save the manuals" kids now think is sacrosanct. If it helps their drivetrains last longer then what's not to love?

 

[edido]

From my experience so far (500 miles):

Shifting from 1-->2 requires extra work to make it smooth. I don't know yet if it becomes better when the engine break-in. Will be great to hear FL5 owners experience?

The rev-match, it only kicks in when you shift to a lower gear. I don't think it does anything when you up-shift. Like if you change the gear to neutral the system doesn't know if your next gear will be up or down. So doesn't make sense for rev-match to kick in until you actually change the gear.
I drove with rev-match and without, and there was no noticeable difference in up-shifting.
I might be wrong.

 

[Mattyboo]

From my experience so far (500 miles):

Shifting from 1-->2 requires extra work to make it smooth. I don't know yet if it becomes better when the engine break-in. Will be great to hear FL5 owners experience?

The rev-match, it only kicks in when you shift to a lower gear. I don't think it does anything when you up-shift. Like if you change the gear to neutral the system doesn't know if your next gear will be up or down. So doesn't make sense for rev-match to kick in until you actually change the gear.
I drove with rev-match and without, and there was no noticeable difference in up-shifting.
I might be wrong.

yes you’re wrong

In any gear, with Rev match on, simply push in the clutch and the revs will not drop beyond the next gear’s target revs at that speed.

Hard to discover that when the rev hang is so severe, but it’s there, and it does a terrible terrible job.

 

[Integra23]

Rev match is doing something on up shifts.. when I get a emissions error( aftermarket DP) it disabled rev matching. The rpms drop so fast that I have to blip the throttle when up shifting.

 

[Mattyboo]

Rev match is doing something on up shifts.. when I get a emissions error( aftermarket DP) it disabled rev matching. The rooms drop so fast that I have to blip the throttle when up shifting.

Interesting. Sounds like the rev hang got tuned out then?

In a proper manual transmission, it’s normal for the revs to drop faster than you can shift. That’s why you’re taught to ease back on the gas before coming all the way off the clutch.

 

[JCJai]

If you are just putting around town, when do you usually shift? I feel like it's smoother when I shift past 3K, anything less it's less smooth. It appears to be smoother when i'm in sport+ for the engine than comfort mode.

 

[Mattyboo]

If you are just putting around town, when do you usually shift? I feel like it's smoother when I shift past 3K, anything less it's less smooth. It appears to be smoother when i'm in sport+ for the engine than comfort mode.

I don’t love ringing out 1st gear at a slow pace - but definitely the sweet spot is between 3.5 and 4.5k for 1 -> 2.

I’ve felt the same thing with sport mode. Maybe the revs drop differently.

My biggest takeaway from this thread is that the rev hang behaves differently based on temperature, whether a/c or heat is on, and whether Rev match is on.

Personally, I think such an erratic power train is unacceptable on a $38,000 car. There’s a lot of noise right now from auto journalists and social media influencers bought out by Honda… but ultimately I think these cars will not hold their value well. If you’re a perspective buyer lurking on this thread, I highly recommend buying anything else. For driver engagement, this might be the worst civic si power train of all time.

But to each their own.

 

[submitaweasel]

When the a/c Compressor is running the revs drop at like 2x speed. I've had a rough shift or 2 because of it. I guess that's what you get for having a super light flywheel and programmed rev hang on a tiny engine being lugged down by a compressor intermittently. Does it make me hate the car? No. I just drive with the a/c off anytime I can. I've also noticed a +2mpg gain with no a/c and noticeably more power.

 

[JCJai]

I also feel now that if I let up the gas to about 1% throttle then shift, i get smoother shifts 95% of the time.

 

[ChicagoShogun]

Sorry if this has been covered before on this or another thread, but has anyone experienced an inconsistent 3rd-to-2nd downshift rev match? Occasionally in that situation, the car doesn't blip the engine for me. I've started to notice it here and there and trying to diagnose when it happens.

 

[OEMjoe]

Revving 1st to around the 4 - 4.5k makes 1 > 2 smooth for me.

I prefer the auto rev match on as a daily. Took it off for a couple weeks and it didn't notice a improvement in shifting.

I do wish engine braking was more useful and the shift knob had a different grip tho.

but has anyone experienced an inconsistent 3rd-to-2nd downshift rev match?

Yea if you hold down the clutch or sit in neutral too long before you shift in gear (like while you're braking)

 

[mattaleo]

Has anyone experienced the 1st to second grind issue? I've heard this was a big complaint with the Type-R...but it didn't happen with my Type-S until I started to push it a little after the break in period.
To describe the experience, when shifting normally from 1st to second the transition is smooth and flawless. But- when going from a dig, switching fast from 1st to second at high rpm 2/5 times the car will grind pretty harshly into second.
It's pretty concerning as I'm now afraid to push it too hard from 1st to second, and takes away the confidence in what I thought was an amazing transmission.
Any thoughts on how I should approach this? Is it something Acura will look at under warranty? I really don't want a random tech trying to repeat the issue.. but will do what's necessary if this can be fixed.

 

[edido]

Has anyone experienced the 1st to second grind issue? I've heard this was a big complaint with the Type-R...but it didn't happen with my Type-S until I started to push it a little after the break in period.
To describe the experience, when shifting normally from 1st to second the transition is smooth and flawless. But- when going from a dig, switching fast from 1st to second at high rpm 2/5 times the car will grind pretty harshly into second.
It's pretty concerning as I'm now afraid to push it too hard from 1st to second, and takes away the confidence in what I thought was an amazing transmission.
Any thoughts on how I should approach this? Is it something Acura will look at under warranty? I really don't want a random tech trying to repeat the issue.. but will do what's necessary if this can be fixed.

I have the same issue and I posted a thread about it few weeks ago. I went twice to the dealership already and they sent me home with empty hands. They claimed that they drove It and didn’t find any issues.
I am really frustrated and don’t know what to do. I started looking at ways to improve the shifting - upgrade bushings and short shifter. I don’t know whether it can improve the issue. I am still researching.

 

[Frenzal]

What did wonders in my 05 Accord 6-6 and in my S2000 was to use GM Synchromesh Friction modified tranny fluid.

Never had major grinding in those cars, but sometimes the shifting was feeling a bit notchy and grindy. GM stuff helped.

Used the GM fluid for more than 10+ years in the S2K and for 18 years in the Accord.

My ITS seems smoother than those two cars regarding shifting. But it seems to get a little bit worst as I drive the car (I am at 4500 km now). Don't know if I'll go the GM route with this car or not. For now, it is acceptable.

 

[mattaleo]

I have the same issue and I posted a thread about it few weeks ago. I went twice to the dealership already and they sent me home with empty hands. They claimed that they drove It and didn’t find any issues.
I am really frustrated and don’t know what to do. I started looking at ways to improve the shifting - upgrade bushings and short shifter. I don’t know whether it can improve the issue. I am still researching.

Damn, seems like the dealer is repeating what Honda has told the Type-R customers.
Yeah it is really frustrating, I've driven Hondas with clutches since early teens including 2-stroke dirt bikes and shifter carts. Never had grind issues on those and they Rev high, you could beat those transmissions to hell and they wouldn't bat an eye. Strange they haven't mastered the 1-2 shift in these transmissions.
Thanks for the response. I'll see if the dealer has the same response for me.