Value of the Integra Type S

[Sphinx]

I said from the time that pricing was announced on the Integra, $37k for the A-Spec Tech was a crazy price relative to the Si at $28k. Of course, Honda couldn't figure out their supply chain, so Si's were scare while there were somehow an abundance of Integras, so with $5-6k of markup on an Si, which is what dealer's were doing, it changed the dynamics a bit, as you could get an Integra as MSRP for $37k vs. an Si with ADM for $33-34k.

I'd argue that there's $3-4k worth of value in an Integra over the Si (HUD, better interior color choices, ELS 3D, hatchback functionality vs. the sedan of an Si, etc.). But at MSRP, I don't think the Integra is worth $9k more than an Si.

Looking at the ITS vs the CTR/A-Spec Tech, the ITS loses some features that the $10k cheaper Integra has, doesn't get all the software stuff the CTR has (custom gauge cluster display, LogR feature), which is the whole point of my post: The ITS doesn't get an adundance of "premium" features over the CTR, and actually loses features on the A-Spec Tech, so when you take a step back and look at it, is there value for the ITS at $47-48k?

If it was up to me, I'd get a CTR, in a heartbeat, over the the ITS, but that's not the world we live in. A CTR will cost at least $5K over MSRP, and I won't pay a dime over MSRP for anything. So, you get slightly luxed up seats, a more sedate but unique exterior, and a car that we can actually get our hands on. In the end the average sales price of an ITS will likely be lower than the CTR because of dumb honda dealers and their ADMs.

But the delta on the base cars has always been there, even during the lives of the original integras, vis a vis the civic. I agree - I don't think it is worth 9K more. Hence, why we are seeking discounts on Aspecs now.

 

[Rdrcr]

Acura as a brand touts being a luxury version of Honda however this car has not been advertised in that way. I'm thinking we may be overlooking the fact that this is an almost identical copy to the type R so that Acura can capitalize on the lack of supply in the type R market. Let's be honest there doesnt appear to be many luxury features in the ITS but they also didn't advertise it in that way so I'm not holding it against them. I'm looking forward to a type R in a different package, whether that holds true through driving reviews remains to be seen.

If they had to design new full leather seats with all the features plus enough bolstering to support over a G in corners are buyers okay adding another 1-2k onto msrp? That's my point, they add weight and cost with each new piece designed and manufactured and then the complaint from us would just be that it's a 50k+ FWD car thats neither a performance car nor an audi tier luxury car

Okay. But, we're talking about a ITS.....not an ITR. If the Integra was a Type-R, I'd agree with you.

IMHO, the Type S should have all the same luxury features the A-Spec Tech 6MT has, plus the performance benefits Acura is showcasing. That's where the value is.

Mike

 

[Estoril]

@Rdrcr isnt the type S moniker for Acura not equivelant to Honda's type R? Does the NSX type S add luxury and value to the base car or is it a sportier version? The reality is there were less than 4k Acura units produced over 2 decades ago that ever had a type R badge, honda would never let them use it now.

Corporate badge engineering aside I hear you, and I actually don't even disagree with you. It's not too much to ask to get the features of the base car but there is a reason for everything and my assumption is that reason would push msrp up too much which would be a bad value for a FWD car with respect to other sporty options on the market

 

[optronix]

The ethos of this car is not a track-focused, laptime-above-all-else. That is the CTR.

The ITS is intended to be the premium/luxury counterpart to Honda, with an emphasis on additional luxury features that make for a fun, but daily-driven on the street car. I’d gladly take an extra 150lbs to have full leather, heated and cooled seats that were full power and memory.

This is an Acura that is supposed to be competing with the likes of BMW and Audi, and should be differentiating itself from the CTR it’s based on with additional creature comforts that one wouldn’t expect to have in a track-focused car like the CTR.

This is where I think you're wrong. The ITS is effectively a "sister car" to the CTR. It is slightly toned down visually and functionally, but only just. As far as we know, the downgrade of the seats is really the only 'less hardcore' feature we're getting with the ITS... otherwise it's just as track-focused as the CTR.

Maybe as we find out more and the suspension is severely softened or some other "degradations" that make it more street-oriented are made apparent I'll change my tune, but for the time being I'm looking at the ITS as a better-looking CTR with a better stereo (but worse seats...).

If you're expecting more luxury-oriented features, then by all means you should certainly keep your TLX. Unless you need a manual- then get the A spec. The ITS should functionally be looked at as an Integra Type R, but I see why they didn't want to resurrect that name plate. Maybe there's room for that car in the future, who knows? Rest assured it won't be anywhere close to $50k though...

I think the consensus is 48k, def under 50. Anything over 50 is suicide.

Nonsense. If people are paying $70k for CTRs then Honda can ask whatever they want for this car, and people will pay it. Maybe not you, but someone else will.

My guess is MSRP of no less than $53k. $55k wouldn't surprise me.

And the reason for that is that you're getting TREMENDOUS VALUE for this car, and it really does boil down to the "fun to drive" factor.

Full disclosure, I haven't driven a CTR. But where there's smoke, there is usually fire when it comes to UNIVERSAL ACCLAIM from auto journalists and enthusiasts alike. Honda absolutely nailed it with the CTR, but whether manufactured or not, the "scarcity" has driven prices up to insane levels.

There is DEFINITELY room in the market for more top tier sporty hatchback. The CTR being in such ridiculous demand to where it's a lost cause to find one close to MSRP and $5k over is considered a steal. "Suicide" my ass! They'll fly off the shelves at $60k in today's market... but I'll add the caveat that I'm not convinced today's market will indeed last forever and they have to plan for that...

That said I stand by my $53k estimate.

I have a personal anecdote. I needed a fun to drive, 4 door sports car. I thought I could make do with an RS5- obviously no manual, so that really reduced the fun to drive factor... but it was more than that. I loved that car, it was very fun to drive but was missing a true sports car edge. Great drivetrain (for an auto); great chassis- not great steering. It wasn't as bad as some reviewers make it out to be (*cough- JAY EMM- cough*), but certainly detracted from feeling inspired to take it down my favorite back roads.

I feel like the ITS will scratch that "sports car itch" better than an RS5...and the RS5 is almost a $90k car (mine was MSRP of $87k)! People ARE paying ADMs for them too, so let's just say it comes in at nearly DOUBLE the projected MSRP of an ITS... and it most surely as hell is not double the car.

edit- One more thought- there is also still a perception issue the Civic faces. Maybe it really is as simple as Honda introducing an Acura-branded version of the Civic Type R to attract a more affluent buyer that can't reconcile paying $50k for a Civic.

 

[Estoril]

This is where I think you're wrong. The ITS is effectively a "sister car" to the CTR. It is slightly toned down visually and functionally, but only just. As far as we know, the downgrade of the seats is really the only 'less hardcore' feature we're getting with the ITS... otherwise it's just as track-focused as the CTR.

Maybe as we find out more and the suspension is severely softened or some other "degradations" that make it more street-oriented are made apparent I'll change my tune, but for the time being I'm looking at the ITS as a better-looking CTR with a better stereo (but worse seats...).

If you're expecting more luxury-oriented features, then by all means you should certainly keep your TLX. Unless you need a manual- then get the A spec. The ITS should functionally be looked at as an Integra Type R, but I see why they didn't want to resurrect that name plate. Maybe there's room for that car in the future, who knows? Rest assured it won't be anywhere close to $50k though...



Nonsense. If people are paying $70k for CTRs then Honda can ask whatever they want for this car, and people will pay it. Maybe not you, but someone else will.

My guess is MSRP of no less than $53k. $55k wouldn't surprise me.

And the reason for that is that you're getting TREMENDOUS VALUE for this car, and it really does boil down to the "fun to drive" factor.

Full disclosure, I haven't driven a CTR. But where there's smoke, there is usually fire when it comes to UNIVERSAL ACCLAIM from auto journalists and enthusiasts alike. Honda absolutely nailed it with the CTR, but whether manufactured or not, the "scarcity" has driven prices up to insane levels.

There is DEFINITELY room in the market for more top tier sporty hatchback. The CTR being in such ridiculous demand to where it's a lost cause to find one close to MSRP and $5k over is considered a steal. "Suicide" my ass! They'll fly off the shelves at $60k in today's market... but I'll add the caveat that I'm not convinced today's market will indeed last forever and they have to plan for that...

That said I stand by my $53k estimate.

I have a personal anecdote. I needed a fun to drive, 4 door sports car. I thought I could make do with an RS5- obviously no manual, so that really reduced the fun to drive factor... but it was more than that. I loved that car, it was very fun to drive but was missing a true sports car edge. Great drivetrain (for an auto); great chassis- not great steering. It wasn't as bad as some reviewers make it out to be (*cough- JAY EMM- cough*), but certainly detracted from feeling inspired to take it down my favorite back roads.

I feel like the ITS will scratch that "sports car itch" better than an RS5...and the RS5 is almost a $90k car (mine was MSRP of $87k)! People ARE paying ADMs for them too, so let's just say it comes in at nearly DOUBLE the projected MSRP of an ITS... and it most surely as hell is not double the car.

edit- One more thought- there is also still a perception issue the Civic faces. Maybe it really is as simple as Honda introducing an Acura-branded version of the Civic Type R to attract a more affluent buyer that can't reconcile paying $50k for a Civic.

If you are after a fun engaging 4 door you are going to enjoy the platform very much. Take it from someone who went from a fast audi to a type R, as long as you get the urge for straight line speed out of your system beforehand. That was the toughest part for me was moving on from an ultimate stoplight car and realizing you shouldn't be doing that on public streets anyways. For reference I'm also about to sell a 6mt V8 to get back into this type R/S

 

[evanescent03]

think about the package that is being offered and what the financial and lifestyle costs or challenges it will create. a new Bugatti Chiron for $150k may be a great value but still may not be "worth it" to someone with 6 kids if you have to sell the minivan for the hyper car.

value is funny ... only you can determine that. even for a given vehicle, people will value different aspects. some people place LOTS or LITTLE value on styling, performance, driving feel, utility, street cred, features, etc. that's why some folks will buy a $20k nissan that has keyless entry, surround view camera, Apple Carplay and a moonroof and think they got a slamming deal... because they got lots of features.... they don't care about performance, style, or driving feel.

 

[lumper]

I recognize that MSRP isn't official yet, but most outlets are speculating that the ITS will come in at $47-48k, and as I step back and think about the ITS, I do question whether it is a good value at the near $50k price point.

The ITS is going to come in at a price around $10k more than the A-Spec Tech, and will have less features than that car (no moonroof, no power passenger seat, no memory driver seat, no USB outlets for the rear seat occupants). Yes, it gets the drivetrain out of the CTR, the revised and widened body, new brakes & wheels, etc., but we're paying more, and losing features that lower trim level Intega's have.

Moreso, if we look at that ~$48k price point, it's pretty much on-par with a TLX A-Spec SH-AWD. I'll give it to the Integra that it's a more practical car than the TLX is (bigger back seat in the Integra, more usable lift-back cargo area), but the TLX has a lot of the premium/luxury features that a lot of us were hoping for on the ITS. A torque-vectoring rear differential, moonroof, heated & ventilated seats, an optional heated steering wheel, more sound-isolating materials, higher quality materials used on the interior, and small things like all 4 windows being auto up/down, or having a rear view mirror with an integrated garage door opener.

I've got the above mentioned TLX, running a KTuner and a Stage 2 tune, and it's a nice car. The tune helps wake the car up, and it's decently quick (0-60 with the tune puts it in the mid 5s range). The AWD system helps the car hide its weight, as it's a fun car to take on the back roads that I have on my drive to work. I go back and forth on whether I want to trade in my TLX for an ITS or not. It'd end up costing me around $11-12k to make the switch and "upgrade", and while I don't doubt that the ITS will be a better driving car than the TLX, the TLX isn't bad, and I'd be giving up a number of those premium features mentioned above.

All of this gives me a bit of a pause when I step back and think about it. The week of the LBGP, I was all for making the switch. Now that the initial hype has died down, and we know a bit more about what features the ITS has and doesn't have, I'm back to being on the fence about it. I'm curious to get other's thoughts on the value of the ITS (assuming its MSRP), and how the car that carry's the Acura badge (what are supposed to be a more premium Honda), doesn't really have that much separating it from a CTR.

It is going to be interesting for sure.
If they land at $47, say51k$ out the door without any market adjustments, I think many will look at other models and cars, once you break the seal on $50k I dunno, it's still just a glorified Civic.
The other thought I had was, as excited as I am, and I cant wait to buy one, I am thinking these will more than likely get a revision after the initial allocations begin hitting lots if the cars are selling.
It might be better to wait a year and see how it does, and what they plan to change or tweak in the car for 2025.

It's usually not a great idea to buy a new car in it's first revision, the Civic Type R is a good example.
I really have my heart set on a Type s.
I've been considering my next car purchase for about 6 months, and at first I landed on a Civic sport 6 spd, for the 2.0-liter bullet proof drive train, great on gas, fun car, etc..

I really don't like the 1.5 for a couple reasons.

I was considering an A spec advanced tech pack but again, that 1.5 liter, so my plan was let's wait to see what Acura does and whether or not they put out a Type S or not, and just like clockwork, they did.

I'm saving up since the car market and banks are about to collapse and lending has already shifted to hard money with more hoops and higher rates, more people being turned down because of inflated car values vs selling price etc..
To avoid all that I am saving up $30k cash so I can put enough down to not worry about any of that, well except for rates but I'm ok with it, after seeing the Type S, nothing else is going to satisfy that itch for me, it's my perfect daily, the right mix of tech, comfort, and performance, exactly what I was hoping for to replace my 2007 350Z.

I just really don't want to pay over $50k for it.
If I can't get one for there or under then Ill have to think about either settling for that 1.5 and get an A spec, or I might even just pay cash for the Sport civic and let things cool off for a year or two and trade it in on a 2025 or 2026 (If they keep making them,) Type S.

 

[Ricochet48]

My guess is MSRP of no less than $53k. $55k wouldn't surprise me.

No chance. That's M240i territory. It will be $48K give or take $1.5K.

 

[Integra23]

It is going to be interesting for sure.
If they land at $47, say51k$ out the door without any market adjustments, I think many will look at other models and cars, once you break the seal on $50k I dunno, it's still just a glorified Civic.
The other thought I had was, as excited as I am, and I cant wait to buy one, I am thinking these will more than likely get a revision after the initial allocations begin hitting lots if the cars are selling.
It might be better to wait a year and see how it does, and what they plan to change or tweak in the car for 2025.

It's usually not a great idea to buy a new car in it's first revision, the Civic Type R is a good example.
I really have my heart set on a Type s.
I've been considering my next car purchase for about 6 months, and at first I landed on a Civic sport 6 spd, for the 2.0-liter bullet proof drive train, great on gas, fun car, etc..

I really don't like the 1.5 for a couple reasons.

I was considering an A spec advanced tech pack but again, that 1.5 liter, so my plan was let's wait to see what Acura does and whether or not they put out a Type S or not, and just like clockwork, they did.

I'm saving up since the car market and banks are about to collapse and lending has already shifted to hard money with more hoops and higher rates, more people being turned down because of inflated car values vs selling price etc..
To avoid all that I am saving up $30k cash so I can put enough down to not worry about any of that, well except for rates but I'm ok with it, after seeing the Type S, nothing else is going to satisfy that itch for me, it's my perfect daily, the right mix of tech, comfort, and performance, exactly what I was hoping for to replace my 2007 350Z.

I just really don't want to pay over $50k for it.
If I can't get one for there or under then Ill have to think about either settling for that 1.5 and get an A spec, or I might even just pay cash for the Sport civic and let things cool off for a year or two and trade it in on a 2025 or 2026 (If they keep making them,) Type S.

I doubt a revision will happen anytime soon. I believe the FK8 debuted as a 2017 model year and had a refresh for the 2020 year then discontinued in 21. Changes were bumpers and maybe suspension changes but not sure what kind.
With this logic we might see some refresh in 2027 but with the EV market in full swing and Acura probably following other luxury brands going electric only. I don't know if they would invest any more $$ on a dying breed.
Though it looks like the TLX is being refreshed in 2024 and it debuted 2021.

 

[VtecBuddy]

This is where I think you're wrong. The ITS is effectively a "sister car" to the CTR. It is slightly toned down visually and functionally, but only just. As far as we know, the downgrade of the seats is really the only 'less hardcore' feature we're getting with the ITS... otherwise it's just as track-focused as the CTR.

Maybe as we find out more and the suspension is severely softened or some other "degradations" that make it more street-oriented are made apparent I'll change my tune, but for the time being I'm looking at the ITS as a better-looking CTR with a better stereo (but worse seats...).

The CTR also has LogR to measure track metrics, a more configurable individual mode, shift lights and a better dash setup for the track, and better aero (I doubt the ITS is actually generating any meaningful downforce). It also has vented front fenders which should help a little with brake temps. Also the seats are pretty important, we are yet to find out how well the ITS seats hold people, but being stable in your seat can be a huge factor in how fast you are on track. I also think the ITS won't have Cup 2s as an option, if the ITS suspension is softer, the car might get overwhelmed by Cup 2s.

 

[tomahawk59n]

No chance. That's M240i territory. It will be $48K give or take $1.5K.

Funny you mention the M240i, that’s what I’m cross shopping the ITS with. But the manual is important to me. I keep wondering if BMW will put the Supra manual in the M240 during a refresh.

 

[Ricochet48]

Funny you mention the M240i, that’s what I’m cross shopping the ITS with. But the manual is important to me. I keep wondering if BMW will put the Supra manual in the M240 during a refresh.

That is also what I'm cross-shopping with. To be honest I was set on a Thundernight with red leather and the wheel/cooling pack to the tune of $59K. I planned to wait for CPO version for $10K off. I had the mods planned and everything haha.

Now the ITS comes along and I'm coming to my senses more... how often driving in the city can I use 400hp? It's generally more fun to driver a slower car fast, especially with a 6MT (e.g. my RSX-S). You'll also feel the 650lb difference all the time.

The BMW has more luxury and looks sharper as a coupe, but is also much less versatile (and more costly to maintain). I don't need the rear seats much now (or the hatch), but if I keep it for nearly 20 years like my DC5, that might me the move for the long-term.

I don't think they will bring the 6MT to the M240i, that's what the M2 is for. The ZF8 auto is basically the best in the business though. If that was offered on the ITS in some crazy world I honestly might go that route (as your SO could then drive it, easier in traffic, better launching, etc.)

The power and tech upgrades from my 50K mile RSX will be immense regardless. My biggest issue is that I don't have anywhere to drive. I live in the heart of Chicago and walk, bike, public transit everywhere. It would basically be used as a tool visit friends in the suburbs and a couple weekend trips. Once again, I expect it to last well over a decade based on my usage rates.

 

[Rdrcr]

@Rdrcr isnt the type S moniker for Acura not equivelant to Honda's type R? Does the NSX type S add luxury and value to the base car or is it a sportier version? The reality is there were less than 4k Acura units produced over 2 decades ago that ever had a type R badge, honda would never let them use it now.

Corporate badge engineering aside I hear you, and I actually don't even disagree with you. It's not too much to ask to get the features of the base car but there is a reason for everything and my assumption is that reason would push msrp up too much which would be a bad value for a FWD car with respect to other sporty options on the market

No. A Type S…is not a Type R.

I’ve spent plenty of time behind the wheel of a 1998 Integra Type R. My good friend and neighbor bought one new. I was there when he reserved it and took delivery. That was a wonderful and ‘focused’ car. Extremely fun on the street and a blast on the track! If you wanted A/C (and I believe a radio) you had to have the dealer install it as an accessory. It wasn’t a Honda. The Integra Type R was in fact, an Acura.
That’s what the Type R badge means to me.

The Type S is the next step in performance for the Acura brand but, clearly, it isn’t a Type R. Although, I do agree, I doubt Acura will ever bring the Type R badge back…Honda owns it now even for the US market.

Mike

 

[optronix]

No chance. That's M240i territory. It will be $48K give or take $1.5K.

I don't think they're apples to apples. For example, that car isn't even on my radar. No manual, not 4 door. I was considering the G87 M2 which as I would spec it would come to $70k and I'd still choose the ITS over that car even if I didn't need 4 doors because of the inputs... and value. Just something about BMW steering and shifter feel doesn't vibe with me, and I've owned several in the past. Also I drive a Boxster; going fast in a straight line isn't a priority for me (although to be fair it's not like 3.8 0-60 is slow...).

The CTR also has LogR to measure track metrics, a more configurable individual mode, shift lights and a better dash setup for the track, and better aero (I doubt the ITS is actually generating any meaningful downforce). It also has vented front fenders which should help a little with brake temps. Also the seats are pretty important, we are yet to find out how well the ITS seats hold people, but being stable in your seat can be a huge factor in how fast you are on track. I also think the ITS won't have Cup 2s as an option, if the ITS suspension is softer, the car might get overwhelmed by Cup 2s.

These are all fair points but it remains to be seen if any of it really gives the CTR that much of an advantage from a "capability" perspective, which is ultimately all I care about (except for the tires, but tires are an option on the CTR just as they are with any other car... and yes I promise you a dealer will install them if you pay them to). As long as the car is capable of surviving a track day or two and a handful of autocross/trackcross events a year while providing a good time, that's exactly why I'm interested. Even though I'm not that guy who obsesses over having the FTOD, I didn't feel like I wanted to take the RS5 to any motorsports events- just didn't seem built for that type of activity. If feels like the CTR is sort of made for that, and I don't think the lack of "brake vents" in the bodywork will really change that for the ITS.

Again, if the suspension is significantly compromised then my interest might shift back to the CTR. But I don't really think shift lights or a built-in "track app" is enough reason to buy a CTR over an ITS, even for my intended occasional track use.

No. A Type S…is not a Type R.

I’ve spent plenty of time behind the wheel of a 1998 Integra Type R. My good friend and neighbor bought one new. I was there when he reserved it and took delivery. That was a wonderful and ‘focused’ car. Extremely fun on the street and a blast on the track! If you wanted A/C (and I believe a radio) you had to have the dealer install it as an accessory. It wasn’t a Honda. The Integra Type R was in fact, an Acura.
That’s what the Type R badge means to me.

The Type S is the next step in performance for the Acura brand but, clearly, it isn’t a Type R. Although, I do agree, I doubt Acura will ever bring the Type R badge back…Honda owns it now even for the US market.

Mike

A car built 25 years ago is not comparable to a car built today. I don't know for sure but I'm guessing a 1998 Civic Type R probably didn't have A/C either but the FL5 does. That's where the comparison should end.

I'm sure Honda has their reasons, mostly marketing but Type S vs Type R isn't really a relevant conversation right now. It's cool that your neighbor has one, we're all jealous... but the Integra Type R is the only Acura that's ever worn that badge so it should really be excluded from the conversation. When and if Honda decides to actually make an Integra Type R we can pick this convo back up.. but I don't even know what that would look like. A $75k Integra with a big wing and somehow more power? Maybe that's when they'll introduce a hybrid drivetrain and AWD... we can speculate all day.

My point is, this is Acura's "hot" version of the Integra, and I know it's marketed as more "street" oriented but my guess once review embargos are lifted we'll find out it's just as much of a usable track car as the CTR.

 

[ijm5012]

$52k MSRP. LMFAO, yikes…

There is no value at that price point. I’d take a CPO S5 SB over an ITS at that price.