Just got Phearable stage 2 tuned - rev hang is still there... :-(

[elh0102]

It's either shift slower, or accept the occasional driveline shock.

Note this behavior isn't happening at moderate throttle and RPM, only when you are pushing it (which ironically is exactly when you don't want this to happen lol).

BMW uses two catalysts in their exhaust systems as part of the strategy to avoid having to add throttle between shifts - they just let the catalyst sort out the unburned fuel. It works much better and feels more like an old-school manual transmission. But it costs more in hardware, of course. you pay what you get for.

I can't believe that this isn't something that can be corrected by a tech that understands the EEC tuning. My car does not do this, and I assume most do not, otherwise we would see pages of posts of similar complaints. As to rev matching on upshifts, well, I've never heard of it and can see no possible value in it, either as a driving technique or a software feature. The entire need for rev matching is the result of shifting to a lower gear and needing the higher rev to smooth the driveline transition and avoid upsetting the suspension balance when negotiating a corner. When upshifting, the revs are matched almost instantly by the simultaneous application of throttle and clutch engagement.

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[ashmostro]

I think this is more common than people think, and they just accept it.

Most of the youtube reviews of the FL5 and DE5 I've seen show the exact same behavior when driven in anger.

 

[ABPDE5]

My guess is Hondata and Cobb are not offering access to change this behavior. Hondata is a pretty locked-down environment (hence why Ktuner was preferred for advanced tuning on the FK8), and they both -- especially Cobb -- need to be careful of running afoul of the EPA re: circumventing emissions.

 

[Snugs24]

My car used to over rev when new when I’d give it 60-70% throttle. It was the same with my 11th gen Si prior. After I broke the engine in it went away except for when I went WOT my first few times. I don’t go WOT often, but like you said it does jump up 1k or so in the upper range. Every video I’ve seen of the car and the Type R driven on track has it over revving for a split second before the revs drop into the next gear.

It doesn’t seem to bother anyone that tracks the car though? Just my observation, but everyone that has driven the si, Type R and S hasn’t mentioned had nothing but praise for the transmission even though they all do the same thing in spirited driving.

It doesn’t affect the 0-60, or 2nd gear rolls etc.

I think @Victorofhavoc, @Tw1stedlog1k, and @JesterTuned ’s explanations are enough for me. I know DBW has to be one of the culprits. My 11th gen si redlined and stayed there out of the blue when going past 50% throttle and shifting up. It was definitely software related.

From my experience, I broke this car in before going past 50% after doing it once and having it over rev like the Si used to do. It stopped over revving unless I don’t drive it for 2 days or so.

interesting thread though. I never would have known it was a problem if it wasn’t for these forums pointing it out.

From what I can tell it’s definitely not a flaw because it’s happened in every video with every reviewer that’s driven this car/the type r/the Si. Like I said, I’ve seen the car launched, rolled etc. and it doesn’t affect acceleration when WOT.

 

[ashmostro]

It is far less prominent if you are shifting near redline because the ECU won't let the engine redline. If you WOT shift earlier, like 6k, that's when it's really evident.

 

[Snugs24]

It is far less prominent if you are shifting near redline because the ECU won't let the engine redline. If you WOT shift earlier, like 6k, that's when it's really evident.

I think it happens no matter where you are in the upper rev ranges. Even at the correct shift points when on track the car bounces off of red line for a little bit before the revs drop. I’ve shifted early at 6k and the revs jumped for a bit and then dropped. I’ll try it this weekend. Like I said I don’t go WOT often, just want an in depth explanation like you.

 

[ABPDE5]

Someone with Hondata should data log while they create the scenario... *wink* *wink* @ashmostro

 

[whtciv2k]

Is that really rev hang? I’ve driven Hondas with rev hang and I don’t think that’s what this is. The “over rev” a smidge during up shifting, I think, might be due to the light flywheel. I can make it not do it if I let off the throttle a nanosecond before I depress the clutch and the rpms drop quickly and don’t hang.

 

[Snugs24]

Someone with Hondata should data log while they create the scenario... *wink* *wink* @ashmostro

You know what, I’ve never seen someone short shift at 6k, have the car over rev, and say “well that’s weird” and the ITS is in my YouTube algorithm . I’ve seen just about every professional review of the car.

 

[elh0102]

You know what, I’ve never seen someone short shift at 6k, have the car over rev, and say “well that’s weird” and the ITS is in my YouTube algorithm . I’ve seen just about every professional review of the car.

I've read and watched a good many reviews, including some long term tests, and no mention of this rev hang. And as I said, it isn't present in my car. One thing comes to mind, and it might be immaterial to the issue. This car, and most cars short of fully prepared track cars, use a soft red line. So, a few hundred rpms short of red line, the ECU retards ignition. If the engine is, at that point, injecting a fuel mixture that cannot be fully burned, maybe it extends the rpms to offset. Probably not, just a thought.

 

[Snugs24]

It is far less prominent if you are shifting near redline because the ECU won't let the engine redline. If you WOT shift earlier, like 6k, that's when it's really evident.

I just tried it on the way home from work. 3rd gear, WOT to 6K revs, and nothing happened on the upshift. The revs just dropped like normal.

like I said, it’s definitely drive by wire software related. If I don’t drive the car for a couple of days it’ll over rev when I’m trying to have a little fun. It occurs from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th, 50-60% throttle at between 4 to 5k.

Back to being a responsible citizen for me . Good luck with getting the word out and hopefully getting some help. Until then, reprogramming your brain might cause some discomfort, but it’s worth it once it becomes a habit. Different manuals/cars in general drive differently. Adjusting and learning new things are apart of the experience.

 

[ashmostro]

Tomorrow I am going to try a canned hondata tune to see if my tune isn't actually set up correctly. It's just absurd how bad it is on my car.

 

[ashmostro]

Adjusting and learning new things are apart of the experience.

For many things, yes. But not all things.

 

[elh0102]

There seems to be something strange going on here. Since numerous folks have a similar complaint of this rev hang issue, I'm inclined to believe that there is an issue with certain cars, since I don’t think that many people could be similarly deficient in their drivig technique. My car drives essentially the same as many previous MT cars. There is some turbo lag present, but manageable. It will be interesting to know the ultimate outcome.

 

[optronix]

How is your k.con and knock retard?

This is definitely a Honda thing, they've been doing it since DBW throttle as early as 2003 (probably earlier than that). My 2004 Accord behaved similarly and I attribute my granny-style shifting to years of Honda conditioning.

Yes, it's all Honda's fault I am the way I am!

In all seriousness, I think this is a problem with perception. I get what you guys are saying. There is something about the way this car (and other Hondas...) behaves with the way the revs "hang around" erratically compared to other manual cars I've driven.

But I think that's where it ends. What I've done is just sort of accept it and adjust my driving appropriately. It was a bit of an eyebrow-raising event in the first few weeks- and the first few laps around a track- but I haven't noticed it virtually at all since.

I think I'm noticing a trend with people who got very used to BMWs appear to be particularly sensitive to this phenomenon.

From what I'm seeing it's a "retraining" thing... but I also understand how you can get very used to specific subjective nuances around an experience, and it feels like something is completely missing and can't be reconciled if you can't figure out how to replicate it. I wish I could tell you how I managed to get over it, because it makes me sad to think that people aren't getting the same level of enjoyment out of this car that I am.

But sometimes it really just boils down to "people like what they like".

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