ITS into something more practical…?

[evanescent03]

Lexus UX/NX Hybrid or Plug-in? Sounds like you're missing that reliable, efficient daily (other than whatever the ITS is). It has more power and reliability over the CR-V giving you the most piece of mind. Also a bit luxurious.

Personally, I'd love to have A Rav4 Prime as the reliable, efficient daily, but I'm guessing you can afford the upgrade since the Rav4 is a bit loud. People here won't like it but maybe a Model Y.

Id have to look at the Lexus … haven’t driven one ever. The infotainment has always turned me off a little but it might be worth another look. I really disliked the system in the GR86 I had.

I’m also definitely not ready for a Tesla yet.. maybe an Audi etron if anything! Seems like tech should be on a steep slope so I’m holding out for better batteries and infrastructure. Although it all seems very forced.

 

[VarmintCong]

Arrrg as much as it pains me to recommend another cuv to clog up our roadways, while Miata is always the answer, check out Mazda’s cx vehicles. Their interiors are near luxury level at half the price. Their handling won’t make you hate driving them. We had good luck with our cx-9 signature.

I was excited for the CX70, rear drive inline six platform between CX5 and CX90 in size. Alas it turned out to be a 5 seat CX90, which is typical Mazda stupidity.

to the OP, you obviously like trading cars, whatever you buy will be gone in a year so I won’t make suggestions.

 

[optronix]

Any SUV besides the Macan is not even worth thinking about from a driving experience perspective... and even with the Macan I wouldn't bother with anything below an S. All these "micro-SUVs" don't make any sense to me; there is literally no advantage over a sedan besides ride height and an elevated driving position. A fastback/hatch only continues to validate this argument.

The ITS is as practical as any SUV, in fact I'm pretty sure it has more rear trunk space than my Macan and possibly as much/more rear seat headroom. Literally no point considering an SUV unless you need a 5th seat, in which several people on here have successfully converted from the A-spec seat so even that is a wasted thought.

I get that I have no real room to talk here as I was a "serial car replacement addict" up until this Type S. But maybe that's what agitates me even more... I'm very glad to hear that there will be true consequences for folks looking to get out of cars within the same year they're acquired because the market is cooling down. This needs to happen. For the balance of the automotive market, and for sanity's sake.

At least for me, I've come to realize that it was sheer boredom driving these incessant desires to continually be looking at the next car. I'd probably still be doing it if the used car market didn't already collapse and my "investment piece" naturally aspirated Porsche sports car lost me $20k in the 7 months I owned it- after the 6 cars I had before it within a 4 year timeframe, not one of them made my life materially better. For those out there still continuing to suffer from this addiction, seek what's missing in your life before continuing the cycle.

It has to stop with YOU.

 

[QUIKAG]

Haha, Optronix. Seriously though, I've had the same disease the past few years and I'm finally getting a bit burnt out. I'm happy with my current collection ( '23 5 Blackwing, '22 BRZ, '10 ZR1, '23 Silverado, '24 ITS, and '23 Tesla Model Y) and hope I can hold onto the ITS for a while. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a car overall.

Here are cars I've bought and sold within a year over the past 18 months:

1. '23 Escalade V
2. '23 LX600
3. '23 Ram TRX
4. '23 911 GTS
5. '24 Corolla GR
6. '23 Ford Lightning

Almost took delivery of my reserved Hummer EV SUV, but walked on it. Too many issues I was reading about on the internet and I lost the most on the Lightning I had (about $5k). EV isn't quite ready for prime time besides Tesla. Wife drives a '23 Model Y LR and likes it. Great vehicle for what it is.

Anyway, OP, keep the ITS and just drive the hell out of it. There really aren't much better daily driver type cars that can derive good enjoyment for 'reasonable' money. You'd be bored out of your mind with a vanilla SUV.

 

[Frenzal]

Keeping my cars 18-20 years, it seems I don't suffer this addiction!

 

[optronix]

Haha, Optronix. Seriously though, I've had the same disease the past few years and I'm finally getting a bit burnt out. I'm happy with my current collection ( '23 5 Blackwing, '22 BRZ, '10 ZR1, '23 Silverado, '24 ITS, and '23 Tesla Model Y) and hope I can hold onto the ITS for a while. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a car overall.

Here are cars I've bought and sold within a year over the past 18 months:

1. '23 Escalade V
2. '23 LX600
3. '23 Ram TRX
4. '23 911 GTS
5. '24 Corolla GR
6. '23 Ford Lightning

Almost took delivery of my reserved Hummer EV SUV, but walked on it. Too many issues I was reading about on the internet and I lost the most on the Lightning I had (about $5k). EV isn't quite ready for prime time besides Tesla. Wife drives a '23 Model Y LR and likes it. Great vehicle for what it is.

Anyway, OP, keep the ITS and just drive the hell out of it. There really aren't much better daily driver type cars that can derive good enjoyment for 'reasonable' money. You'd be bored out of your mind with a vanilla SUV.

See, that's batshit right there. Makes me dizzy just looking at that list. And you must have gotten out of that Lightning immediately- didn't I see somewhere that the Ford CEO himself basically shit on it? I can't imagine depreciation is looking good for those at the moment.

It was almost acceptable when I could trade a car in for near what I paid for it, but the last two times I did this that was most certainly not the case.

While I was doing it, I thought it was perfectly fine. So now, when I see this type of behavior, I feel obligated to at least say something about it- man it would have been nice if someone talked some sense into me and helped me avoid the spiral. Too many other "enthusiasts" think this behavior is fine- it's really not. It doesn't help anyone but the dealers, and end of the day it's not as much "fun" as you'd think either.

All I'm saying is that I had a problem, and can readily admit that now. Sure I had other shit going on that was almost certainly an undiagnosed mental health issue, but who's to say everyone doing this doesn't have something like that pulling the strings? I kind of feel like if someone jumped in and said "dude wtf are you doing?" instead of enabling it, I could at least have saved myself some time and energy. Not to mention 5 figures of actual money.

 

[QUIKAG]

See, that's batshit right there. Makes me dizzy just looking at that list. And you must have gotten out of that Lightning immediately- didn't I see somewhere that the Ford CEO himself basically shit on it? I can't imagine depreciation is looking good for those at the moment.

It was almost acceptable when I could trade a car in for near what I paid for it, but the last two times I did this that was most certainly not the case.

While I was doing it, I thought it was perfectly fine. So now, when I see this type of behavior, I feel obligated to at least say something about it- man it would have been nice if someone talked some sense into me and helped me avoid the spiral. Too many other "enthusiasts" think this behavior is fine- it's really not. It doesn't help anyone but the dealers, and end of the day it's not as much "fun" as you'd think either.

All I'm saying is that I had a problem, and can readily admit that now. Sure I had other shit going on that was almost certainly an undiagnosed mental health issue, but who's to say everyone doing this doesn't have something like that pulling the strings? I kind of feel like if someone jumped in and said "dude wtf are you doing?" instead of enabling it, I could at least have saved myself some time and energy. Not to mention 5 figures of actual money.

So, being a CFO/CPA type, I was "playing the game" a bit. I did bail on the Lightning within 45 days which is why I only lost $5k. If I had held it a while longer, it would be more like $25k loss. Crazy. Ironically, the truck itself was actually really nice and had no issues in the 2k miles I put on it. Only glitch was the phone app not refreshing or showing the charge state, but the truck charged fine and everything on the truck worked perfectly. It was quick, quiet, smooth, and overall well made. I think Ford will be okay long-term if they keep improving it and cutting the price as they've been doing.

On the other cars, all combined I actually ended up a bit ahead. The Escalade V being the biggest gainer. I got one of the first ones (long story), held it for six months (as required to maintain warranty) and flipped that B for a nice profit. Man, what an insane exhaust note and very nice acceleration for a 6k+ land yacht, but otherwise, a regular Escalade is fine for 99% of people since it felt a bit weird hearing that kind of exhaust sound out of a freaking Escalade and the crazy acceleration/shifts. Fun a** vehicle though.

Anyway, as previously said, I'm a bit burned out at this point and with the flip arbitrage opportunities mostly gone too, I'm going to chill out for a while and drive what I have.

 

[bpebler]

I’m looking for something for my wife, but no rush - she might even say just to wait a couple years. But I’d like to trade her Durango for a Macan GTS, Cayenne S non turbo, or…new Toyota Seqouia. She will decide & assume she’s going to continue leaning Toyota which I don’t mind since I can actually tow wood with it sometimes, very spacious, & good MPGs. I want the GTS, but this suv would be our road trip vacationing vehicle & might be more practical to lean Toyota. Siiigh maybe one day I’ll finally get into a Porsche. PCA has some decent discounts on events & what not. If it were for me personally, it’d be between a 2 door Porsche, a GTR, or NSX. But I have home & bunker plans first, so might have the get back into sales for a bit to accommodate.

 

[optronix]

So, being a CFO/CPA type, I was "playing the game" a bit. I did bail on the Lightning within 45 days which is why I only lost $5k. If I had held it a while longer, it would be more like $25k loss. Crazy. Ironically, the truck itself was actually really nice and had no issues in the 2k miles I put on it. Only glitch was the phone app not refreshing or showing the charge state, but the truck charged fine and everything on the truck worked perfectly. It was quick, quiet, smooth, and overall well made. I think Ford will be okay long-term if they keep improving it and cutting the price as they've been doing.

On the other cars, all combined I actually ended up a bit ahead. The Escalade V being the biggest gainer. I got one of the first ones (long story), held it for six months (as required to maintain warranty) and flipped that B for a nice profit. Man, what an insane exhaust note and very nice acceleration for a 6k+ land yacht, but otherwise, a regular Escalade is fine for 99% of people since it felt a bit weird hearing that kind of exhaust sound out of a freaking Escalade and the crazy acceleration/shifts. Fun a** vehicle though.

Anyway, as previously said, I'm a bit burned out at this point and with the flip arbitrage opportunities mostly gone too, I'm going to chill out for a while and drive what I have.

Flipping is an entirely different story, different set of rules. I never had the mindset to flip anything- the only thought I put into that was avoiding it. For all my faults, the one thing I've avoided is ever paying over what I thought was an appropriate value for a car, and certainly never over MSRP. For me it was just "destination anxiety"- much like this thread, always looking for an excuse to not be happy with what I have right in front of me. I can't get too preachy about your use case, where arguably it's a business decision to at the very least finance your hobbies... I had no idea there was even such a thing as an Escalade V- my mind has a hard time processing things that I have less than zero interest in. Much less spend any cycles measuring the market for such a thing.

I’m looking for something for my wife, but no rush - she might even say just to wait a couple years. But I’d like to trade her Durango for a Macan GTS, Cayenne S non turbo, or…new Toyota Seqouia. She will decide & assume she’s going to continue leaning Toyota which I don’t mind since I can actually tow wood with it sometimes, very spacious, & good MPGs. I want the GTS, but this suv would be our road trip vacationing vehicle & might be more practical to lean Toyota. Siiigh maybe one day I’ll finally get into a Porsche. PCA has some decent discounts on events & what not. If it were for me personally, it’d be between a 2 door Porsche, a GTR, or NSX. But I have home & bunker plans first, so might have the get back into sales for a bit to accommodate.

Skip the Macan. What you're describing where you're cross-shopping it with a Sequoia, there's no way I could in good conscience attempt to justify the cost premium of a Macan over the other cars you're considering (except the Cayenne but yeah, skip that too).

I wouldn't recommend really anyone buy one used; for one, 2022 marked a significant improvement in features and tuning for the Macan across the model range- the Turbo went away and the GTS slid into the top tier for model selection, and the S inherited the fantastic 2.9L engine that is shared with the GTS (and Turbo before it), but doesn't benefit from the extensive tuning that Porsche did a fantastic job on with the GTS models. There is a distinct difference you notice the second you start the vehicle between the S and GTS, I don't care what Nick Murray has to say about it (I love Nick though, great channel).

Secondly, it's a vastly overcomplicated German luxury car, I wouldn't buy one anywhere near the warranty running out. So that puts you in the market for a new one, which will set you back north of six figures. The only way to justify it is if you are zeroed in on the driving experience... the fact you're even considering a Toyota pretty much secures the position that you should it avoid one entirely.

For example, my wife shit all over the idea of an X3M. She wanted a MACAN, and it had to be a GTS. Clearly I was ok with it, and that car isn't going ANYWHERE.

Also- you can join the PCA without owning a Porsche. It's a "Porsche enthusiast" club. You don't have to own one to get in.

 

[ckone2030]

Flipping is an entirely different story, different set of rules. I never had the mindset to flip anything- the only thought I put into that was avoiding it. For all my faults, the one thing I've avoided is ever paying over what I thought was an appropriate value for a car, and certainly never over MSRP. For me it was just "destination anxiety"- much like this thread, always looking for an excuse to not be happy with what I have right in front of me. I can't get too preachy about your use case, where arguably it's a business decision to at the very least finance your hobbies... I had no idea there was even such a thing as an Escalade V- my mind has a hard time processing things that I have less than zero interest in. Much less spend any cycles measuring the market for such a thing.



Skip the Macan. What you're describing where you're cross-shopping it with a Sequoia, there's no way I could in good conscience attempt to justify the cost premium of a Macan over the other cars you're considering (except the Cayenne but yeah, skip that too).

I wouldn't recommend really anyone buy one used; for one, 2022 marked a significant improvement in features and tuning for the Macan across the model range- the Turbo went away and the GTS slid into the top tier for model selection, and the S inherited the fantastic 2.9L engine that is shared with the GTS (and Turbo before it), but doesn't benefit from the extensive tuning that Porsche did a fantastic job on with the GTS models. There is a distinct difference you notice the second you start the vehicle between the S and GTS, I don't care what Nick Murray has to say about it (I love Nick though, great channel).

Secondly, it's a vastly overcomplicated German luxury car, I wouldn't buy one anywhere near the warranty running out. So that puts you in the market for a new one, which will set you back north of six figures. The only way to justify it is if you are zeroed in on the driving experience... the fact you're even considering a Toyota pretty much secures the position that you should it avoid one entirely.

For example, my wife shit all over the idea of an X3M. She wanted a MACAN, and it had to be a GTS. Clearly I was ok with it, and that car isn't going ANYWHERE.

Also- you can join the PCA without owning a Porsche. It's a "Porsche enthusiast" club. You don't have to own one to get in.

Interesting that you said "skip the Cayenne" as that was one of the cars I seriously considered. Interested in knowing your opinion of the car?

 

[QUIKAG]

Flipping is an entirely different story, different set of rules. I never had the mindset to flip anything- the only thought I put into that was avoiding it. For all my faults, the one thing I've avoided is ever paying over what I thought was an appropriate value for a car, and certainly never over MSRP. For me it was just "destination anxiety"- much like this thread, always looking for an excuse to not be happy with what I have right in front of me. I can't get too preachy about your use case, where arguably it's a business decision to at the very least finance your hobbies... I had no idea there was even such a thing as an Escalade V- my mind has a hard time processing things that I have less than zero interest in. Much less spend any cycles measuring the market for such a thing.

The only one I bought specifically to sell after the required time was the Escalade V. The others I planned to keep, but for various reasons, it didn't work out after a while. That said, I won't deny there was a subconscious realization that I wasn't going to get hurt on any them big time (besides maybe the Lightning, hence the quick move out of it after realizing) if I decided to get rid of them down the road, so that definitely factored in my decision to purchase initially.

 

[bpebler]

Flipping is an entirely different story, different set of rules. I never had the mindset to flip anything- the only thought I put into that was avoiding it. For all my faults, the one thing I've avoided is ever paying over what I thought was an appropriate value for a car, and certainly never over MSRP. For me it was just "destination anxiety"- much like this thread, always looking for an excuse to not be happy with what I have right in front of me. I can't get too preachy about your use case, where arguably it's a business decision to at the very least finance your hobbies... I had no idea there was even such a thing as an Escalade V- my mind has a hard time processing things that I have less than zero interest in. Much less spend any cycles measuring the market for such a thing.



Skip the Macan. What you're describing where you're cross-shopping it with a Sequoia, there's no way I could in good conscience attempt to justify the cost premium of a Macan over the other cars you're considering (except the Cayenne but yeah, skip that too).

I wouldn't recommend really anyone buy one used; for one, 2022 marked a significant improvement in features and tuning for the Macan across the model range- the Turbo went away and the GTS slid into the top tier for model selection, and the S inherited the fantastic 2.9L engine that is shared with the GTS (and Turbo before it), but doesn't benefit from the extensive tuning that Porsche did a fantastic job on with the GTS models. There is a distinct difference you notice the second you start the vehicle between the S and GTS, I don't care what Nick Murray has to say about it (I love Nick though, great channel).

Secondly, it's a vastly overcomplicated German luxury car, I wouldn't buy one anywhere near the warranty running out. So that puts you in the market for a new one, which will set you back north of six figures. The only way to justify it is if you are zeroed in on the driving experience... the fact you're even considering a Toyota pretty much secures the position that you should it avoid one entirely.

For example, my wife shit all over the idea of an X3M. She wanted a MACAN, and it had to be a GTS. Clearly I was ok with it, and that car isn't going ANYWHERE.

Also- you can join the PCA without owning a Porsche. It's a "Porsche enthusiast" club. You don't have to own one to get in.

Yeah, my wife is all over the place with what she wants & so am I. My parameters are constantly changing which doesn’t help. I was originally comparing a used GTS to a new Seqouia. Me leaning GTS & her leaning Toyota of course. Neither one of us have owned a Toyota .

I like the way BMW’s look but would never buy one. I do remember you mentioning that Porsche’s preowned program was among the best out there tho, which had me interested in a used GTS in the first place. I started looking & found some locally around 60k depending on year @ mileage. I’m not sure if my wife would be able to settle with the interior space. I suppose after thinking more about it that I wouldn’t either if I’m the one packing up all the beach crap & driving everyone 12 hours. This would’ve all been easier if she could just have been happy inheriting my 22 Ram Limited. So much space for trips like that & hauling never an issue, plus it had some very nice Vossen wheels, Retrax sliding tonneau cover, etc. I would’ve gladly just traded her suv in for the ITS instead of the truck, but oh well.

I went to a PCA HDPE seminar last Saturday & they said to join that I HAD to have a Porsche of some kind. Whether it was old, didn’t run, it was my wife’s SUV, or I knew someone that owned one that would “sponsor” me.

If she can live with the interior space of the GTS then hell, I’d just rent a truck for hauling wood when I need it. If not, the Cayenne looked more spacious. Who knows what she’ll want when that time comes. I’m sure a lot will change between now & when it comes time to purchase. But if I need to concerned with expensive fixes out of warranty, then it will depend on what I’m doing for work then too. I can work on a Wagonner/Seqouia/etc myself - I know squat about Porsche’s other than I want one & fortunately the veteran HDPE instructors have gladly stepped in to say they’d help out & who to talk to at a particular dealership to avoid the BS.

 

[QUIKAG]

If you can live with the space, get a Macan GTS. Best driving SUV (and one of the best driving vehicles period) out there. However, if space is an issue, you can't go wrong with a Sequoia. Like them or not, Toyota makes good vehicles.

 

[bpebler]

If you can live with the space, get a Macan GTS. Best driving SUV (and one of the best driving vehicles period) out there. However, if space is an issue, you can't go wrong with a Sequoia. Like them or not, Toyota makes good vehicles.

It was one of favorites at the auto show for sure. A friend brought up another good point on the standard Wagoneer that’s hurricane engine equipped. I test drove a Grand Wagoneer II & was blown away but it wasn’t in the cards at the time. With my budget (& personal priorities ), I HAD to get my ITS preorder first.

 

[optronix]

Interesting that you said "skip the Cayenne" as that was one of the cars I seriously considered. Interested in knowing your opinion of the car?

Yeah I can see how it would appear that I was dismissive of the Cayenne, but that's not the case. My intent was more to include it with the Macan because they're very similar in attempting to justify the premium. Porsche does not make a bad car, so I love the Cayenne, although my wife prefers the "cute ute" dimensions of the Macan, and IMHO the Macan does drive smaller/better than the Cayenne- but also personally I've kind of become an elitist for the GTS models. Folks on YouTube and in forums (like Nick Murray, bless his heart) try to position the GTS as some sort of cash grab "parts bin special" or something that Porsche tries to "trick" people into paying a premium for- and maybe that was the case with some early GTS models like the 997- but the reality is that they do truly put a ton of effort into tuning and tweaking them in just the right ways to offer a better experience (short of the true GT cars, of course).

All this to say that the Cayenne is great, if a bit large and/or overpriced for my tastes, but I'd try to steer you more towards the GTS models. The new Cayenne S with the V8 though, oh my god. What a car. I like that one.

Also what may be a weird take but one I'm pretty rigid on, is I'm not a fan of any Porsche Turbo model (996TT and 997TT manuals excluded, I love those). I think they're ridiculous and absolutely not the best representation of a Porsche, unless you just have to have the most power, and have money flying out of your ass.

Yeah, my wife is all over the place with what she wants & so am I. My parameters are constantly changing which doesn’t help. I was originally comparing a used GTS to a new Seqouia. Me leaning GTS & her leaning Toyota of course. Neither one of us have owned a Toyota .

I like the way BMW’s look but would never buy one. I do remember you mentioning that Porsche’s preowned program was among the best out there tho, which had me interested in a used GTS in the first place. I started looking & found some locally around 60k depending on year @ mileage. I’m not sure if my wife would be able to settle with the same space. I suppose after thinking more about it that would either if I’m the one packing up all the beach crap & driving everyone 12 hours. This would’ve all been easier if she could just have been happy inheriting my 22 Ram Limited. So much space for trips like that & hauling never an issue, plus it had some very nice Vossen wheels, Retrax sliding tonneau cover, etc. Inwouodve gladly just traded her suv in for the ITS instead of the truck, but oh well.

I went to a PCA HDPE seminar last Saturday & they said to join that I HAD to have a Porsche of some kind. Whether it was old, didn’t run, it was my wife’s SUV, or I knew someone that owned one that would “sponsor” me.

If she can live with the interior space of the GTS then hell, I’d just rent a truck for hauling wood when I need it. If not, the Cayenne looked more spacious. Who knows what she’ll want when that time comes. I’m sure a lot will change between now & when it comes time to purchase. But if I need to concerned with expensive fixes out of warranty, then it will depend on what I’m doing for work then too. I can work on a Wagonner/Seqouia/etc myself - I know squat about Porsche’s other than I want one & fortunately the veteran HDPE instructors have gladly stepped in to say they’d help out & who to talk to at a particular dealership to avoid the BS.

I did say that Porsche has one of the best CPO programs, and it is true. But a high-mileage Macan scares me to death. And just to be known, 30k is considered high mileage in the Porsche world.

I am surprised, but not shocked, that you must own a Porsche or "be sponsored" to get in the good ol' boys club. Thanks for keeping me honest there. What a joke. BMW doesn't make you do that... but also I think this may be because there are many folks who move from BMW to Porsche that they still want to keep around (myself included...). Anyway, join the BMW CCA then and reap most if not all of the same benefits. Fuck the PCA then, forget everything I said, they're gatekeeping losers and if you can't tell, I fucking hate that worldview. I will concede there are MANY Porsche owners that think like that. But certainly not all.