ITS into something more practical…?

[bpebler]

Yeah I can see how it would appear that I was dismissive of the Cayenne, but that's not the case. My intent was more to include it with the Macan because they're very similar in attempting to justify the premium. Porsche does not make a bad car, so I love the Cayenne, although my wife prefers the "cute ute" dimensions of the Macan, and IMHO the Macan does drive smaller/better than the Cayenne- but also personally I've kind of become an elitist for the GTS models. Folks on YouTube and in forums (like Nick Murray, bless his heart) try to position the GTS as some sort of cash grab "parts bin special" or something that Porsche tries to "trick" people into paying a premium for- and maybe that was the case with some early GTS models like the 997- but the reality is that they do truly put a ton of effort into tuning and tweaking them in just the right ways to offer a better experience (short of the true GT cars, of course).

All this to say that the Cayenne is great, if a bit large and/or overpriced for my tastes, but I'd try to steer you more towards the GTS models. The new Cayenne S with the V8 though, oh my god. What a car. I like that one.

Also what may be a weird take but one I'm pretty rigid on, is I'm not a fan of any Porsche Turbo model (996TT and 997TT manuals excluded, I love those). I think they're ridiculous and absolutely not the best representation of a Porsche, unless you just have to have the most power, and have money flying out of your ass.



I did say that Porsche has one of the best CPO programs, and it is true. But a high-mileage Macan scares me to death. And just to be known, 30k is considered high mileage in the Porsche world.

I am surprised, but not shocked, that you must own a Porsche or "be sponsored" to get in the good ol' boys club. Thanks for keeping me honest there. What a joke. BMW doesn't make you do that... but also I think this may be because there are many folks who move from BMW to Porsche that they still want to keep around (myself included...). Anyway, join the BMW CCA then and reap most if not all of the same benefits. Fuck the PCA then, forget everything I said, they're gatekeeping losers and if you can't tell, I fucking hate that worldview. I will concede there are MANY Porsche owners that think like that. But certainly not all.

Holy cow, I never would’ve thought 30k to be high mileage I will look into BMW - especially for the driving school/seminars! At first I thought maybe my future instructor/family friend might sponsor me, but he may have gotten rid of his Porsche’s to enter the Shelby world from what I’m hearing - which sounds backwards. I’ll have to contact him to verify. Maybe he got tired of the PCA requirements too

 

[evanescent03]

Holy cow, I never would’ve thought 30k to be high mileage I will look into BMW - especially for the driving school/seminars! At first I thought maybe my future instructor/family friend might sponsor me, but he may have gotten rid of his Porsche’s to enter the Shelby world from what I’m hearing - which sounds backwards. I’ll have to contact him to verify. Maybe he got tired of the PCA requirements too

Go take a photo of yourself by a pcar in a parking lot and tell them it’s you’re lol. I’ve done PCA HPDE but i don’t *think* I was ever a PCA member. May vary by region. I’ve found PCA HPDE to be generally laid back and fun/respectful group .. BMWCCA, Chin, HOD are some other good ones tho.

for a road trip SUV you just gotta go get some seat time. car buying is such a subjective thing. we LOVE our Yukon AT4 with 6.2L and sports exhaust. Plenty quick, sounds great and is like riding on a cloud. Space for days and can tow like 8K lbs. sure isn’t an Escalade V (sheesh!), but it works for us! Sequoia is cool and I’m sure works fine … but man do I dislike Toyota infotainments. Really subjective tho.

 

[evanescent03]

Haha, Optronix. Seriously though, I've had the same disease the past few years and I'm finally getting a bit burnt out. I'm happy with my current collection ( '23 5 Blackwing, '22 BRZ, '10 ZR1, '23 Silverado, '24 ITS, and '23 Tesla Model Y) and hope I can hold onto the ITS for a while. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a car overall.

Here are cars I've bought and sold within a year over the past 18 months:

1. '23 Escalade V
2. '23 LX600
3. '23 Ram TRX
4. '23 911 GTS
5. '24 Corolla GR
6. '23 Ford Lightning

Almost took delivery of my reserved Hummer EV SUV, but walked on it. Too many issues I was reading about on the internet and I lost the most on the Lightning I had (about $5k). EV isn't quite ready for prime time besides Tesla. Wife drives a '23 Model Y LR and likes it. Great vehicle for what it is.

Anyway, OP, keep the ITS and just drive the hell out of it. There really aren't much better daily driver type cars that can derive good enjoyment for 'reasonable' money. You'd be bored out of your mind with a vanilla SUV.

Yeah - I think we may have a similar approach to this.

I’m on my 2nd ITS, had 2 Civic Sis, a GR86, 2 Sierra 2500s, 2 Yukon AT4s (kept one), 718 GT4 and C8 Z06 in past 2ish years. The real enablers for me have been the dealers. I get tax credit so very little penalty for trading out (I have never made money, but so close it’s like I drove a few of them for free over months and thousands of miles).

I do think I’ll keep the ITS. Just too much fun and I’d pretty quickly regret it. With our new property I’ll have a lot more space for vehicles so I’ll probably start a small collection rather than trading so often. The ITS and Z06 are both pretty unique and special … may really ragret[sic] ditching them down the road.

Appreciate the input & nice collection you have!!

 

[evanescent03]

All I'm saying is that I had a problem, and can readily admit that now. ….instead of enabling it, I could at least have saved myself some time and energy. Not to mention 5 figures of actual money.

No doubt there can be an addiction element to car trading … the transaction for sure could be considered similar to a high/rush. It can be something that is part of the hobby though too. Trying to find a perfect car is a fools errand, but sampling cars for modest losses isn’t super crazy. People rent a sports/exotic for thousands of dollars per day. If you can drive one for 3 months, track the snot out of it and ride a $5-10k hit, maybe it’s not so bad?

My wife has been largely very supportive. although there hVe been brief moments of marital strain, it’s been far from an issue. She’ Occasionally just needs me to tell her that my same impulsiveness doesn’t translate into my female attraction/pursuit. Haha. (It doesn’t!)

 

[bpebler]

Go take a photo of yourself by a pcar in a parking lot and tell them it’s you’re lol. I’ve done PCA HPDE but i don’t *think* I was ever a PCA member. May vary by region. I’ve found PCA HPDE to be generally laid back and fun/respectful group .. BMWCCA, Chin, HOD are some other good ones tho.

for a road trip SUV you just gotta go get some seat time. car buying is such a subjective thing. we LOVE our Yukon AT4 with 6.2L and sports exhaust. Plenty quick, sounds great and is like riding on a cloud. Space for days and can tow like 8K lbs. sure isn’t an Escalade V (sheesh!), but it works for us! Sequoia is cool and I’m sure works fine … but man do I dislike Toyota infotainments. Really subjective tho.

I wish! They actually said a VIN was required. I do still plan a using them & eventually racing them. I will build in an attempt to win but I’m 100% ok with losing to anything & just there for the fun & experience - whether street or track. I’ll have to look into Chin & HOD - I’m not familiar with those but this realm is all new to me.

Those AT4’s ARE super sweet! I bet they sound great too. Apparently even my friends new 2500 AT4 rides almost as smooth as my other friends High Country. I was surprised to hear that. I was intrigued by the TT6 cylinders due to the fuel mileage & even though I’d haul fairly heavy, it wouldn’t be often at all. I’ve never had any time with Toyota infotainment, but definitely a factor. My wife’s 2020 Durango interface is very bland & there’s nowhere to put your stuff really. Back to the GMC though, I’d certainly consider that over an Escalade anyway. Especially if you can get the off road capability of the AT4 with smooth suspension as you stated.

Truthfully I should consider just renting a Home Depot truck to beat on for hauling maybe - it would certainly open my options up a lot! Hahaha A bit of an inconvenience though since the closest HD or Lowe’s to me is about 30 minutes or more.

 

[optronix]

No doubt there can be an addiction element to car trading … the transaction for sure could be considered similar to a high/rush. It can be something that is part of the hobby though too. Trying to find a perfect car is a fools errand, but sampling cars for modest losses isn’t super crazy. People rent a sports/exotic for thousands of dollars per day. If you can drive one for 3 months, track the snot out of it and ride a $5-10k hit, maybe it’s not so bad?

My wife has been largely very supportive. although there hVe been brief moments of marital strain, it’s been far from an issue. She’ Occasionally just needs me to tell her that my same impulsiveness doesn’t translate into my female attraction/pursuit. Haha. (It doesn’t!)

I get it, I did the same thing- traded my 911 in for a couple grand more than I bought it for and that didn't include the tax credit, which ended up totaling about $10k over what I paid. Lost a total of maybe $500 over 3 years on an S3, basically drove it for free... less than a grand in 6 months on an S4... ended up paying absolutely nothing for the 6 months I had my RS5... but I didn't know when to stop and lost a significant amount with the two 718s when I traded them in. Seems like others are catching on that you can't really get away with doing that anymore, and I think we'll all be better off for it.

I'll tell you right now, if the market wasn't so favorable for the 911 I'd still have it. That alone is enough to make me glad the madness appears to be ending. The fact is I was very happy with that car, but the temptation to go try something else and actually in my head come out ahead was too strong. I feel like an idiot now because I couldn't justify getting another 911 now if I wanted one, and it's due to my own indiscretions. Should have just stopped while I was ahead...

Fortunately for me my car boredom doesn't translate to females either. That said, my wife's patience ran out completely with the car thing, and it had nothing to do with the money. She just saw through the facade and realized before I did that I wasn't actually having fun chasing the next car, but I was having fun using them while I had them, and that's where I've landed with the ITS. It does everything I need it to, and I think I'm finally at a place where I don't feel like I need anything else.

 

[evanescent03]

I get it, I did the same thing- traded my 911 in for a couple grand more than I bought it for and that didn't include the tax credit, which ended up totaling about $10k over what I paid. Lost a total of maybe $500 over 3 years on an S3, basically drove it for free... less than a grand in 6 months on an S4... ended up paying absolutely nothing for the 6 months I had my RS5... but I didn't know when to stop and lost a significant amount with the two 718s when I traded them in. Seems like others are catching on that you can't really get away with doing that anymore, and I think we'll all be better off for it.

I'll tell you right now, if the market wasn't so favorable for the 911 I'd still have it. That alone is enough to make me glad the madness appears to be ending. The fact is I was very happy with that car, but the temptation to go try something else and actually in my head come out ahead was too strong. I feel like an idiot now because I couldn't justify getting another 911 now if I wanted one, and it's due to my own indiscretions. Should have just stopped while I was ahead...

Fortunately for me my car boredom doesn't translate to females either. That said, my wife's patience ran out completely with the car thing, and it had nothing to do with the money. She just saw through the facade and realized before I did that I wasn't actually having fun chasing the next car, but I was having fun using them while I had them, and that's where I've landed with the ITS. It does everything I need it to, and I think I'm finally at a place where I don't feel like I need anything else.

Landing on a ITS isn’t a bad spot. Although u did like the cars I’ve had, they still were flawed. Including thr M3CS I had which was an absolute beast. It could’ve been my last car ever .. functional, fast, best seats I’ve had (better than GT4 buckets imo) but I think I have more fun in the ITS.

Glad you kicked the habit. Can’t find true happiness in cars although they are fun. There’s a fine line between casual trading and getting hopped up on it and losing more money than is reasonable (highly variable). I lost $14k in a month on my 718S a few years back. Also in California where there was no tax credit.

Anyways. I’m very happy with the ITS and I think I realized that the thrill of the trade isn’t worth it this time. At least for now. I hope I can be sensible enough to hold onto it for years to come because it really is a dying breed …. Will be really interesting to see what kind of enthusiast cars come out in the next 5-10yrs …

 

[mopar_man]

@bpebler you owe it to yourself to at least go find a Durango R/T with the TnG package. My wife loves durangos and we grabbed a ‘23 when we thought it was going to be the last year of the HEMI’s in them. The TnG package makes this thing drive, handle, etc so good for its size. And the exhaust note is glorious.

Also, the new interface is really nice.

 

[bpebler]

@bpebler you owe it to yourself to at least go find a Durango R/T with the TnG package. My wife loves durangos and we grabbed a ‘23 when we thought it was going to be the last year of the HEMI’s in them. The TnG package makes this thing drive, handle, etc so good for its size. And the exhaust note is glorious.

Also, the new interface is really nice.

Before we got hers originally, we did test drive a 2020 RT version and I tried to convince her then to get it over the V6 to no avail. She did change her mind later, of course LOL At the time, there was only like a 3K difference. I do like the newer revision that has better headlights, the UC5, and a better center console in general. My 2021 & 2022 5.7 Ram was getting 14-17mpg’s though. I do not subscribe to cylinder deactivation or etorque though. Turned them both off when I had them on the 2021. If the hurricane engine is available on the new Durango like the Grand Cherokee & Wagoneer I would definitely consider it again! After they’re out for a couple years of course. Seemed on the 5th gen Ram forum that 19 and 20 year models had some issues, but they worked out the kinks before I picked my models up. Was a great forum to be a part of!

 

[mopar_man]

The tow n go package basically turns the RT into an SRT lite. You get brembos, active suspension, srt exhaust and some other goodies. Its really fun to drive.

 

[bpebler]

The tow n go package basically turns the RT into an SRT lite. You get brembos, active suspension, srt exhaust and some other goodies. Its really fun to drive.

Brembo’s & active susp. definitely sounds like fun.

 

[evanescent03]

Carvana offered $44k.

So 3 offers on trade near Dayton Ohio and Carvana:

$44k, $45k and $47k

Someone may find that helpful.

 

[porkster]

I get it, I did the same thing- traded my 911 in for a couple grand more than I bought it for and that didn't include the tax credit, which ended up totaling about $10k over what I paid. Lost a total of maybe $500 over 3 years on an S3, basically drove it for free... less than a grand in 6 months on an S4... ended up paying absolutely nothing for the 6 months I had my RS5... but I didn't know when to stop and lost a significant amount with the two 718s when I traded them in. Seems like others are catching on that you can't really get away with doing that anymore, and I think we'll all be better off for it.

I'll tell you right now, if the market wasn't so favorable for the 911 I'd still have it. That alone is enough to make me glad the madness appears to be ending. The fact is I was very happy with that car, but the temptation to go try something else and actually in my head come out ahead was too strong. I feel like an idiot now because I couldn't justify getting another 911 now if I wanted one, and it's due to my own indiscretions. Should have just stopped while I was ahead...

Fortunately for me my car boredom doesn't translate to females either. That said, my wife's patience ran out completely with the car thing, and it had nothing to do with the money. She just saw through the facade and realized before I did that I wasn't actually having fun chasing the next car, but I was having fun using them while I had them, and that's where I've landed with the ITS. It does everything I need it to, and I think I'm finally at a place where I don't feel like I need anything else.

Gotta say, I really enjoy reading your posts. I just traded in a high mileage 997.2 C4S for my ITS and have so many mixed feelings. I nearly called the whole thing off when I thought I could do a private sale on the 911 and get a decent buck, but then factoring in the pain in the ass process and how particular Porsche owners are, it may not have been worth it.

The whole thing with the Porsche gatekeeping is interesting. I felt like I was in the "club" when I had my 911, but was perhaps more imaginary than real. More talk about specs and stitching than the love of driving. I felt like I spent more time admiring the car in pride of ownership, where the ITS is the opposite. I can drive my 4 year old around since the ITS is a full four door sedan and not worry about parking it on the street.

I am surprised how powerful the ITS feels compared to the 911. The 911 felt like it needed to be above 5k RPM to really move. Handling is great too. I think mostly I miss the unique flat 6 sound.

 

[optronix]

Gotta say, I really enjoy reading your posts. I just traded in a high mileage 997.2 C4S for my ITS and have so many mixed feelings. I nearly called the whole thing off when I thought I could do a private sale on the 911 and get a decent buck, but then factoring in the pain in the ass process and how particular Porsche owners are, it may not have been worth it.

The whole thing with the Porsche gatekeeping is interesting. I felt like I was in the "club" when I had my 911, but was perhaps more imaginary than real. More talk about specs and stitching than the love of driving. I felt like I spent more time admiring the car in pride of ownership, where the ITS is the opposite. I can drive my 4 year old around since the ITS is a full four door sedan and not worry about parking it on the street.

I am surprised how powerful the ITS feels compared to the 911. The 911 felt like it needed to be above 5k RPM to really move. Handling is great too. I think mostly I miss the unique flat 6 sound.

Thanks, I think I operate at a frequency that's only appreciated by a few on these forums lol. I'm convinced that some people on here truly despise me, but I'm just here for good conversation. They're only punishing themselves.

First of all, I agree 100% on all your points. There is a world of emotions with Porsches, and as you've noticed they tend to attract very "interesting" owners. You let go of a very, very nice car just like I did. That alone is hard to reconcile. But going from a very nice sports car that was beginning to show its age from a wear and feature perspective to a modern, usable sports car at a reasonable price point has its merits as well.

And for the owners... I can freely admit now that I had full-on imposter syndrome with my 911. Sure I felt part of the "club", but I think that's what bothered me the most! I didn't want to talk about it with my friends and family, kept the S3 around almost exclusively for driving to customer sites for fear of how it was perceived, and just always felt self-conscious unless I was on Rennlist... where I still struggled to fit in. As you say, there's only so long the novelty can last when all anyone wants to talk about is what color seat belts they should get or is the Burmester worth it vs the Bose... but there are some good folks on there and in my local PCA chapter as well. They're certainly not all bad! But the "vibe" can be irritating or even borderline hostile at times, for sure.

Also a very important note, I was flat out scared to use it for its intended purpose. I've never been more aware of the walls on a race track than in that car, and my times suffered for it. I was getting punked by Subarus and Minis because I just hit a proverbial wall in the form of a mental block when driving more than 7/10ths. Now with the ITS, I'm the one punking Porsches.

So all that said, yes- the ownership experience of the ITS is actually better than the 911. Factor in the price/performance, it's better than any of my past cars.

But also also... I can't lie and say I don't still feel the pull of going back to Porsche. I think I've landed on a 997.2 as my next purchase as an augmentation to the ITS in a couple years- or possibly another 991.2 if I can find one at a decent price point because that turbo engine is everything that's great about the ITS and the N/A flat-6s combined, with the only sacrifice being about 15-20% of the noise- coupled with rear-axle steering and the 991.2 is indeed a nearly perfect driving experience, no way to deny it. But to be clear- and I know I've said this before but I feel like it may actually stick this time- the ITS is going nowhere. I do fully intend for this to be my proverbial "forever car", so whatever else I get will just have to be parked next to the ITS.

 

[porkster]

Thanks, I think I operate at a frequency that's only appreciated by a few on these forums lol. I'm convinced that some people on here truly despise me, but I'm just here for good conversation. They're only punishing themselves.

First of all, I agree 100% on all your points. There is a world of emotions with Porsches, and as you've noticed they tend to attract very "interesting" owners. You let go of a very, very nice car just like I did. That alone is hard to reconcile. But going from a very nice sports car that was beginning to show its age from a wear and feature perspective to a modern, usable sports car at a reasonable price point has its merits as well.

And for the owners... I can freely admit now that I had full-on imposter syndrome with my 911. Sure I felt part of the "club", but I think that's what bothered me the most! I didn't want to talk about it with my friends and family, kept the S3 around almost exclusively for driving to customer sites for fear of how it was perceived, and just always felt self-conscious unless I was on Rennlist... where I still struggled to fit in. As you say, there's only so long the novelty can last when all anyone wants to talk about is what color seat belts they should get or is the Burmester worth it vs the Bose... but there are some good folks on there and in my local PCA chapter as well. They're certainly not all bad! But the "vibe" can be irritating or even borderline hostile at times, for sure.

Also a very important note, I was flat out scared to use it for its intended purpose. I've never been more aware of the walls on a race track than in that car, and my times suffered for it. I was getting punked by Subarus and Minis because I just hit a proverbial wall in the form of a mental block when driving more than 7/10ths. Now with the ITS, I'm the one punking Porsches.

So all that said, yes- the ownership experience of the ITS is actually better than the 911. Factor in the price/performance, it's better than any of my past cars.

But also also... I can't lie and say I don't still feel the pull of going back to Porsche. I think I've landed on a 997.2 as my next purchase as an augmentation to the ITS in a couple years- or possibly another 991.2 if I can find one at a decent price point because that turbo engine is everything that's great about the ITS and the N/A flat-6s combined, with the only sacrifice being about 15-20% of the noise- coupled with rear-axle steering and the 991.2 is indeed a nearly perfect driving experience, no way to deny it. But to be clear- and I know I've said this before but I feel like it may actually stick this time- the ITS is going nowhere. I do fully intend for this to be my proverbial "forever car", so whatever else I get will just have to be parked next to the ITS.

See I totally get all that. I don't think your demeanor is to intentionally brag about what you can buy, and honestly anyone who is buying an ITS at $53k can in fact cross shop with some pretty nice used performance cars. I don't think the ITS is a bargain, even though it is a nice overall package.

I also had an interesting track experience when I went to Lime rock in my 997. Most of the cars that passed me were indeed better drivers, but there was a moment on the Posey straight where an E92 335i was just plain faster in a straight line. Not an M3, not a newer 340i, but an equally old 335i. I am pretty positive I can turn in better lap times in the ITS, by just being newer and fresher. Things get old on cars, rubber and plastics degrade with time and miles, and those things can be expensive to replace on fancy exotic brands. I had plastic tabs on everything breaking fairly often in my 997, and that can be embarrassing when everyone else thinks its supposed to be a fancy car. I also felt out of place telling people I had a 911 since there would be unrealistic assumptions about my income level and then like you said, imposter syndrome.

Like you, I always will admire the brand, and want a 991.2 myself. I think the turbo 3.0 motor will make up for a lot of shortcomings from the 997, but they're not at a price yet that is realistically attainable for me to have a proper ownership experience.

I am truly enjoying the ITS more and more as a daily. When thinking of the life after the 997.2, my choices (manuals only) were the ITS, CT4V BW, and the G80 M3. I was really leaning towards the Cadillac and even test drove the automatic. I probably would have been happiest with it performance wise, but the interior was seriously cramped and I disliked how the car looked. When I went to the Acura dealer, they made it pretty seamless to move into an ITS with a decent trade in and painless experience. Maybe in a few years, the 4BW will still be the move.