Going to battle with dealer installed PPF

[Azkyrie6]

I hate saying it this way, but your car is compromised because of the dealer's actions. Depending on how far you want to pursue this, I don't think you should be ready to let them off the hook just yet.

I think overall your ownership experience shouldn't be impacted too much, at least once the dust settles from this. Looks like you went with satin PPF on the whole car? That's a wise move, especially in this situation. Assuming you went with something similar to Xpel Stealth, you'll get a 10 year warranty on the film itself and it will differentiate your car from other white Type S's, which is fun. Also, it will cover up any deficiencies in the paint once the repairs are done so you likely won't notice them at all and you can enjoy your car like you had intended when you bought it.

However,

You have to consider the value of the car, AND the experience of going through all of this. It's cool they gave you a loaner, as they damn sure well should be. I got a loaner for 2 weeks after I traded in my Boxster (@VarmintCong) while I waited for my car to be delivered so they can stand to lose a service loaner while they fix what they effed up. But that said, you still have to go without your car that you are currently making payments on, and even once you get it back you have to drive it around with partial PPF until the paint "gases out" so that's another 30 days of it looking awkward. Minor inconveniences in the grand scheme but this shit adds up.

Then comes the value. Not sure if it will make its way to carfax or not, but no matter how good the repair is your car has diminished value. Someone, some day, is going to peel off that PPF and take a paint meter to the car and inspect it very very closely. They will find whatever imperfections will be introduced by the repair that had to be done because of what the dealer did.

I'm not sure what the exact course of action would be and whether or not it would be worth it, but just a repair and a loaner at no cost doesn't seem adequate to make up for what ultimately will not only make you stress out over your brand new car that should bring you nothing but joy, but also is nearly impossible to argue will hit you in the pocket as well on a long enough timeline. Just a few things to consider from a (heavily caffeinated) random internet stranger.

I did go with satin PPF. It’s HEXIS Bodyfence XS 8mil film with a bit of stretch and top hydrophobic layer.

When I get the car back and the car is still not up to par, I’m not entirely sure what options I should pursue at that point. The worst possible outcome would be paint that’s horribly matched with terrible quality that will fade and degrade quickly.

I do understand the diminished value aspect even tho I do intend to keep the car for a long time and pass it down to the kids later. But that doesn’t mean it would never be sold. Is it worth pushing the dealer about this topic?

 

[Azkyrie6]

So I've given this some thought, and while I can appreciate that they're trying to make this right and it seems like you're being (possibly too) reasonable, I share some of the concerns that others have brought up here. I understand they can't get a replacement bumper + fender at this time (and even if they did, are they going to match your vehicle once they arrive?), so a touch-up is the best they can do for now... but I'm not so sure they're fully making up for their issue, and to be clear, this is very much their issue.

PWP is seemingly the one color the factory is having the most trouble applying, and they're working with bare metal and plastic. Additionally, you've got damage scattered throughout the bumper and fender, right in the neighborhood where factory paint problems have been most evident. I don't work in a body shop, but I don't think this is an easy repair.

It sounds like they're already underway on your repairs, but I would take this time as an opportunity to talk about a serious long-term warranty on their work. I'd be looking for something very explicit and in writing--7-10+ years, speaking to yellowing, fading, cracking, etc. and what remedies you can seek. If they're not willing to engage with you on this, loop in Acura to help mediate. A warranty is going to be an absolute must-have, don't take the car back without one.

OR... if you don't feel fully comfortable with the vehicle now that you've found the damage/once repairs are done/warranty is discussed... you could push them for a trade opportunity for an upcoming/their next Type-S allocation in a color that you're open to (sorry for anyone in line at Courtesy!). They're not going to love this idea as it costs them three times (their repairs + trade-in value + replacement profit), and they might say it'll cost you something (ie loss of value on your car, taxes, ets) or claim it'd take years to do because of the number of people in line (I wouldn't agree to wait in line, personally). Don't let them scare you off. Assuming you paid MSRP, and depending on the mileage, they could give you what they intend to sell the car for in trade-in credit toward another Type-S (probably $50k-$53k) and that'd leave you to pick up the difference + taxes as a small penalty for the pleasure of owning/using the car they sold you with hidden defects.

I’ll bring up the warranty when picking up the vehicle this week. It’s a shop that courtesy Acura chose which happens to be a body shop that’s part of a Lincoln dealership.

I did pay MSRP plus a few accessories I was okay with purchasing since I was the first to buy an ITS from this dealer. Their list is 38 people deep and have only gotten two allocations all year. To pay for taxes and registration would not be cheap. It would likely cost both me and the dealer no matter what happens. The fact still remains that the damage was caused on their end so the vehicle would have to be brought to an as new or very least acceptable condition

 

[optronix]

I did go with satin PPF. It’s HEXIS Bodyfence XS 8mil film with a bit of stretch and top hydrophobic layer.

When I get the car back and the car is still not up to par, I’m not entirely sure what options I should pursue at that point. The worst possible outcome would be paint that’s horribly matched with terrible quality that will fade and degrade quickly.

I do understand the diminished value aspect even tho I do intend to keep the car for a long time and pass it down to the kids later. But that doesn’t mean it would never be sold. Is it worth pushing the dealer about this topic?

I'd say absolutely, but as someone pointed out earlier since you already commissioned the dealer to take on the work you may be limited as far as what your options are. It does at least seem like they're willing to continue with good will efforts to make it right. I think honestly the way my brain operates, I'd be asking for them to take the car back but I know that isn't always even possible in many scenarios.

You seem to be looking at this in the best possible light so as long as you keep doing that don't worry about what all of us say. We're "arm-chair"-ing your situation without really any skin in the game so take all of it with a grain of salt. End of the day the car still works fine this is just a cosmetic issue so there's nothing stopping you from still truly enjoying the car. So good on you for having that type of head on your shoulders- I don't think I'd be stable throughout something like this; I'd probably have made a scene by now.

Another possible route is to take this up with Acura North America. I'm not real sure how to even go about doing that but this might be worth their attention if their dealers are pulling shenanigans like this. They might be able to provide some recourse. Also look into "lemon law" stuff in your state, there might be something useful in there. That's all this Internet stranger has for you today, good luck.

 

[submitaweasel]

I'd say absolutely, but as someone pointed out earlier since you already commissioned the dealer to take on the work you may be limited as far as what your options are. It does at least seem like they're willing to continue with good will efforts to make it right. I think honestly the way my brain operates, I'd be asking for them to take the car back but I know that isn't always even possible in many scenarios.

You seem to be looking at this in the best possible light so as long as you keep doing that don't worry about what all of us say. We're "arm-chair"-ing your situation without really any skin in the game so take all of it with a grain of salt. End of the day the car still works fine this is just a cosmetic issue so there's nothing stopping you from still truly enjoying the car. So good on you for having that type of head on your shoulders- I don't think I'd be stable throughout something like this; I'd probably have made a scene by now.

Another possible route is to take this up with Acura North America. I'm not real sure how to even go about doing that but this might be worth their attention if their dealers are pulling shenanigans like this. They might be able to provide some recourse. Also look into "lemon law" stuff in your state, there might be something useful in there. That's all this Internet stranger has for you today, good luck.

As somebody who has dealt with Honda of North America (there is no Acura of North America to file a complaint with), I can safely say that there is a <5% chance they will do anything. I believe in my situation they may have contacted the dealer which sped things up, but other than that they were downright worthless. I highly doubt dealer damage would fall under lemon either as lemon is for defective vehicles that cannot be repaired, but I didnt hit enough days to start pursuing that so I am not educated enough to be sure.

I think OP is going about this in a very level headed and professional way. At the end of the day, thats whos car it is and who has to deal with the stress of the whole situation.

 

[optronix]

As somebody who has dealt with Honda of North America (there is no Acura of North America to file a complaint with), I can safely say that there is a <5% chance they will do anything. I believe in my situation they may have contacted the dealer which sped things up, but other than that they were downright worthless. I highly doubt dealer damage would fall under lemon either as lemon is for defective vehicles that cannot be repaired, but I didnt hit enough days to start pursuing that so I am not educated enough to be sure.

I think OP is going about this in a very level headed and professional way. At the end of the day, thats whos car it is and who has to deal with the stress of the whole situation.

Yeah. I know people on Rennlist talk all the time about how Porsche NA can help work through dealer issues but it's only marginally higher than 5% in even those cases. Just trying to offer some sort of guidance but agree, OP is handling this about as well as could reasonably be expected.

 

[RUNN1N]

Also look into "lemon law" stuff in your state, there might be something useful in there. That's all this Internet stranger has for you today, good luck.

So I failed to mention it before, but I looked into the Colorado Lemon Law previously, and it sounds like it's limited to manufacturer defects that impact the vehicle's use and/or market value... this one's a dealership/third party defect, so I think it'd be up to the OP to pursue a general civil action against the dealership or PPF installer. Unfortunately, I think the Lemon Law won't help here.

If he went after the dealership, they'd likely try to push the PPF installer to defend them assuming there's a contract in place between the dealership and the PPF installer.

I’ll bring up the warranty when picking up the vehicle this week.

I did pay MSRP plus a few accessories I was okay with purchasing since I was the first to buy an ITS from this dealer. Their list is 38 people deep and have only gotten two allocations all year. To pay for taxes and registration would not be cheap. It would likely cost both me and the dealer no matter what happens. The fact still remains that the damage was caused on their end so the vehicle would have to be brought to an as new or very least acceptable condition

I'd push hard for that warranty, and I'd bring it to their attention before picking up the car. If you decide you're not satisfied with their work/the vehicle and want them to buy the vehicle back, I'd only expect to pay tax on the difference between the ITS' trade-in value and the replacement vehicle of your choosing. Stick to your guns, make sure they make you whole.

 

[submitaweasel]

Yeah. I know people on Rennlist talk all the time about how Porsche NA can help work through dealer issues but it's only marginally higher than 5% in even those cases. Just trying to offer some sort of guidance but agree, OP is handling this about as well as could reasonably be expected.

At risk of going off-topic; I'm surprised that Porshe would not have a better track record with customer complaints and pushes it to the dealer. I assumed being lower volume than honda would allow for a better manufacturer-customer experience.

 

[submitaweasel]

So I failed to mention it before, but I looked into the Colorado Lemon Law previously, and it sounds like it's limited to manufacturer defects that impact the vehicle's use and/or market value... this one's a dealership/third party defect, so I think it'd be up to the OP to pursue a general civil action against the dealership or PPF installer. Unfortunately, I think the Lemon Law won't help here.

If he went after the dealership, they'd likely try to push the PPF installer to defend them assuming there's a contract in place between the dealership and the PPF installer.



I'd push hard for that warranty, and I'd bring it to their attention before picking up the car. If you decide you're not satisfied with their work/the vehicle and want them to buy the vehicle back, I'd only expect to pay tax on the difference between the ITS' trade-in value and the replacement vehicle of your choosing. Stick to your guns, make sure they make you whole.

You took my thoughts and made them words.

I am impressed.

 

[optronix]

At risk of going off-topic; I'm surprised that Porshe would not have a better track record with customer complaints and pushes it to the dealer. I assumed being lower volume than honda would allow for a better manufacturer-customer experience.

TBH there really aren't that many issues. At the risk of @VarmintCong having a conniption, the Porsche dealership experience when ordering a new vehicle is truly next level (in most cases). If most of the chatter on Rennlist and other boards is to be believed, Porsche tightly controls allocation distribution and rewards dealers for delighting their rich customers with extra allocations- and rich customers reward dealers by serially buying several expensive ass cars.

I only recall a handful of issues where Porsche NA was invoked, and like here it didn't seem like it was a high percentage of resolution in those cases. I'm struggling to come up with specifics... but an example I can remember is one guy on the 718 boards ordered a car that arrived from the factory missing one of the options that was on his build sheet- I think it was something relatively tame like he ordered 18 way seats and it came with 14 ways, some sort of confusion from the dealer submitting the order to the factory. The dealer let him skip the line for the next allocation they were getting (Cayman GTS 4.0), and actually gave him a slight discount. Clearly no need to pull the big brass card if the dealer handles things like this.

The only thing that comes to mind for Porsche North America had to do like you mention with manufacturer defects. Some people were getting really screwed over the amplifier chips in their Bose stereos going through a shortage, so the cars would be literally sitting on dealer lots for months waiting for a single part with no ETA nor rhyme or reason for when and how the parts were getting delivered. Totally different situation, and no resolution per se but some people did get at least some insightful information... and I figured it was a longshot but may be worth at least tossing an email over the fence or something with no expectations to see if anything could be shaken loose.

 

[Baozzer]

Hey I’m back at Acura Pines and I just wanted to share the PPF on the type s is just as good as mine.

 

[Azkyrie6]

Update: received the vehicle back from the body shop. They were able to repair the knife cuts by sanding down and sealing in the clear coat again.

Lines are still a bit visible but much more faint. We were able to avoid repainting entire panels and bumpers, and clear coat no longer exposed. This is something I can live with:

Too the ITS back to the detail shop to resume ppf installation. With the repairs done and can no longer feel the cuts with their fingers they now feel safer about putting PPF over it. The result is it’s this type of PPF we can no longer see the cut lines at all.

Courtesy Acura paid the body shop to do the repairs at no cost to me. They offered full repainting but I declined and the results were acceptable, unless there’s some other damage or risk from refinished clear coat I dont know about. But they do offer a 5 year warranty. Overall, very happy to have the car back and the dealership has been awesome and helpful

 

[optronix]

Update: received the vehicle back from the body shop. They were able to repair the knife cuts by sanding down and sealing in the clear coat again.

Lines are still a bit visible but much more faint. We were able to avoid repainting entire panels and bumpers, and clear coat no longer exposed. This is something I can live with:

Too the ITS back to the detail shop to resume ppf installation. With the repairs done and can no longer feel the cuts with their fingers they now feel safer about putting PPF over it. The result is it’s this type of PPF we can no longer see the cut lines at all.

Courtesy Acura paid the body shop to do the repairs at no cost to me. They offered full repainting but I declined and the results were acceptable, unless there’s some other damage or risk from refinished clear coat I dont know about. But they do offer a 5 year warranty. Overall, very happy to have the car back and the dealership has been awesome and helpful

Seems like a totally satisfactory resolution. The PPF looks fantastic, and yes- you'll forget about those little marks in no time.

 

[submitaweasel]

Update: received the vehicle back from the body shop. They were able to repair the knife cuts by sanding down and sealing in the clear coat again.

Lines are still a bit visible but much more faint. We were able to avoid repainting entire panels and bumpers, and clear coat no longer exposed. This is something I can live with:

Too the ITS back to the detail shop to resume ppf installation. With the repairs done and can no longer feel the cuts with their fingers they now feel safer about putting PPF over it. The result is it’s this type of PPF we can no longer see the cut lines at all.

Courtesy Acura paid the body shop to do the repairs at no cost to me. They offered full repainting but I declined and the results were acceptable, unless there’s some other damage or risk from refinished clear coat I dont know about. But they do offer a 5 year warranty. Overall, very happy to have the car back and the dealership has been awesome and helpful

So happy your glad with the resolution. I have to ask...the blacked out integra logo with red a..what? Is that something they did or you did? Its like a type r homage but not at all at the same time. I both like it and hate it and am 50/50 on if i want to do the same thing. So curious and sorry for the rambles.

 

[Azkyrie6]

So happy your glad with the resolution. I have to ask...the blacked out integra logo with red a..what? Is that something they did or you did? Its like a type r homage but not at all at the same time. I both like it and hate it and am 50/50 on if i want to do the same thing. So curious and sorry for the rambles.

I saw some black inlay stickers on the A-spec. I asked the ppf shop if they could create colored PPF with a red “A” inlays into the Integra stamps. They did a phenomenal job custom making it . Definitely a personal preference thing if you prefer a more subtle look.

However, you can always remove them if you don’t like it

 

[Azkyrie6]

Seems like a totally satisfactory resolution. The PPF looks fantastic, and yes- you'll forget about those little marks in no time.

You were absolutely right, satin PPF is amazing. Had a tough time choosing between matte ppf vs satin matte ppf. Yes there’s a difference, at least with HEXIS bodyfence there’s a straight matte version but the shop told me it would turn performance white pearl into paint primer white lol.

Either way Autofilm solutions did a phenomenal job, no visible edges and nearly every spot was wrapped over the edges. Sadly to go matte or satin matte ppf, there is no middle road; one must go all the way and wrap the whole car