Finally moving on from the DE5

[optronix]

This actually came pretty suddenly. The psychology of a car enthusiast should be studied, and I'm so glad I'm not like this with women.

I'm in the process of trading out of yet another car. The Integra held my attention fully for almost 3.5 years. The longest I've owned a car since I was a broke junior enlisted sailor who couldn't afford to serially car-hop if I wanted to.

I'll just come out with it- it's the best car I've ever owned. And I've owned some good ones.

So why am I moving on from it? I clearly love the car and have been one of the most active members on this forum since the car was announced. Well, the one thing the car can't do is put the top down. That's not an offense- in fact there's no way I'd want it to be offered as a convertible. I'm fine with it not having a sunroof! But... I've worked myself into a tax bracket where I can justify purchasing an additional car to provide - to me - this essential motoring capability. The problem for the Integra is that the car I chose to suit the open-air need happens to overlap heavily with other things the Integra does well. How I went most of my car-loving life without experiencing an MX-5 is a travesty. They really are just that good at being "the answer" from a pure driving perspective.

So really what this translates to, is I no longer have a need for a manual-only "driver's car". I have two of them now, and literally have experienced in the past few weeks the agony of staring at the registration screen for an autocross trying to decide which car I want to bring. Couple that with my long-term assessment that for every performance modification you make you strip a little more of its soul away from being a good road car, and my eyes started to wander.

I'm probably on record somewhere suggesting that if I didn't need a manual I would almost surely have picked a different car. The ones I'd put at the top of that list are the Audi RS3 and the Alfa Giulia Q4. Only one of those is worth even thinking about owning as a primary vehicle. Probably a bit of timing too because Throttle House just recently did a review of the 2026 RS3 and some of the changes to the chassis tuning piqued my interest. So that's what I'm doing.

The Integra Type S truly did every single thing I asked from it, and snapped me out of a terrible streak of cycling through cars. If I hadn't have bought the Mazda I wouldn't have even thought about moving on from it, in fact was hotly anticipating news of the 2027 changes and almost surely would have just got a new one. But now, as I wait for the dealer to install tint and all-season tires on my Mythos Black Metallic RS3, I have a few days left to be weirdly emotional with an inanimate object.

Also I will have some wheels up for sale in a couple days.

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[nttran98]

Ultra banger cuzz, I guess youre tasting everything whilst having the health and youth to enjoy it.

 

[asone]

I hear so many good things about Audi RS3. Good luck with it when you get it.
I traded in '20 Miata that I had for 6 years to get the Type S, and I miss it.

 

[Tw1stedlog1k]

You know I've always felt this car did everything well so it overlaps with a lot of cars, whether we want to admit it or not. I can see why people cross shop it against other cars out of its performance and price class.

Listen, enjoy those cars in good health and keep us updated on how you're terrorizing the Audi boards.

 

[DK 24LC ITS]

I especially liked the bit you said about slowly making the car less daily-able. I'm looking to do just the minimum stuff to make it a little better for casual track days (not trying for lap records) but I fully daily the car. I have only done the PRL RMM so far and already notice more buzzing, etc...which isn't too bad. I'm considering the 27WON strut bar and maybe a thicker rear sway bar. I won't be doing coilovers, and I may or may not tune it in the future.
In your opinion, where is that line where it was annoying to daily? What mods do you recommend and which would you avoid if doing it again?

 

[peterfromsd]

What?! No M2 Xdrive to throw into the mix with the RS3? Blasphemy

 

[optronix]

I especially liked the bit you said about slowly making the car less daily-able. I'm looking to do just the minimum stuff to make it a little better for casual track days (not trying for lap records) but I fully daily the car. I have only done the PRL RMM so far and already notice more buzzing, etc...which isn't too bad. I'm considering the 27WON strut bar and maybe a thicker rear sway bar. I won't be doing coilovers, and I may or may not tune it in the future.
In your opinion, where is that line where it was annoying to daily? What mods do you recommend and which would you avoid if doing it again?

Great question, but it is going to depend on an individual's expectations for how they use the car.

For me, the springs started me down the path to ruination. I felt like I needed the springs to get the car to look the way I wanted; the factory wheel gap and offset were just insufficient for me- I tried to just cure the offset with aftermarket wheels but it wasn't enough. To be clear, I was not interested nor had any expectation the springs would help improve performance in any way. The problem though is that with the springs came horrendous understeer that was immediately noticeable during my first autocross (important to note though- I'm not convinced I would have noticed the understeer at all had I not used the car for autocross). So then I needed to correct this with more aggressive front camber... that worked but I was still overlooking the roll center correction, and the ball joints weren't adjustable enough... and the ride was noticeably degraded vs OEM so I tried the DSC controller which helped a little... I could continue but you probably get the picture.

But where I 'll elaborate a bit- what really started to kill the experience for me was actually the tires. 275 RE-71RZ on this already-not-quiet car are just so damn NOISY. But... I loved the way the car looked on the 18" CE28Ns, and how responsive the car felt just every time you turned the wheel. So that really was where the line was drawn- I loved the performance aspects of having the tires on the car but the noise kept me from wanting to drive it more often.

But keep in mind, that problem could easily be solved by just putting some PS4S or other "normal" 300TW tire on... which actually I even have available just on a set of 19" Apex VS-5RS. But that tire wouldn't work for me for autocross. I had to make an active choice...

I honestly would have just accepted it if I never got the Mazda. And been happy about it. In fact, I would have just went straight to coilovers and roll center correction, and a rear bar... and probably on and on. That would have been acceptable if it was still my only car.

But having the Mazda available- especially after I just got a more aggressive alignment (you can adjust camber from the factory on an MX-5!) and some stickier tires- it just made that compromise feel unnecessary to the point of silliness.

What?! No M2 Xdrive to throw into the mix with the RS3? Blasphemy

I still need 4 doors... and (subjectively of course), the modern BMWs still have faces only a mother could love.

Also worth mentioning, I've owned several Audis in the past, including an S3 that I actually very much adored for what it was. Which was an augmentation to a 981 Boxster GTS. So this is kind of an inverse reimagining of that garage setup- the RS3 is a clear upgrade over the S3, but the MX-5 isn't quite the pure sports car that Boxster was- BUT I don't get hives thinking about taking it on a race track or putting miles on it. I think it'll work out.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I especially liked the bit you said about slowly making the car less daily-able. I'm looking to do just the minimum stuff to make it a little better for casual track days (not trying for lap records) but I fully daily the car. I have only done the PRL RMM so far and already notice more buzzing, etc...which isn't too bad. I'm considering the 27WON strut bar and maybe a thicker rear sway bar. I won't be doing coilovers, and I may or may not tune it in the future.
In your opinion, where is that line where it was annoying to daily? What mods do you recommend and which would you avoid if doing it again?

What optronix said above....

I'll also add, "modifying your car is the best way to ruin it". The HPDE classes I coach, I always have a slide where we talk about improving driver before changing anything. Most of the time, the more modified the car, the less consistent it is and therefore the drivers take much longer to learn/develop.

The factory car is incredibly well balanced. It does not need a rsb to "prevent understeer", it needs an alignment to remove the factory understeer dictated by lawyers (same as most pedestrian cars sold). A good alignment and quality fluids is all this car needs to wake it up. My car has very limited and very targeted mods scoped for consistency...even underpowered compared to other cars in my class and above, I still came in 1st during time trials. Other than ball joints (for alignment for specific tires), brake pads, tires, and a "motorsports focused tune" the car is all stock.

One of my DE students has a type r that he's been learning on, and he has no less than 12 weekends in it now. Stock tires, stock pads, stock everything. The only thing he did recently was remove the drip tray to reduce his iat, per my recommendation.

The stock car will do great on track! Change things when you learn the car's limits and after no less than 5-6 weekend outings of learning/development.

Will miss you around here @optronix ! The rs3 is a tremendously nicer car. I'm a big, big fan of the latest ones. Yes they miss some of the steering feel, but you have your miata for that! Nothing beats a miata as a sports car. If I could fit kid car seats in the back I would get an rs3, but for my street oriented instructor car/toy I like the idea of driving around my kids... Plus my 2yo is a little daredevil who eggs me on to go faster all the time. She's trouble.

 

[DK 24LC ITS]

Thanks Victor, I did notice that I was nowhere approaching the limits even in all season tires at my first 2 track days, including the Glen (except the brakes of course). What alignment do you recommend. I have -2 up front now with the pins in and other than fluid and pads I'm stock. I don't want to have to realign it all the time between street and track...and it was pretty fun at -2...but what's yours at?

 

[optronix]

Thanks Victor, I did notice that I was nowhere approaching the limits even in all season tires at my first 2 track days, including the Glen (except the brakes of course). What alignment do you recommend. I have -2 up front now with the pins in and other than fluid and pads I'm stock. I don't want to have to realign it all the time between street and track...and it was pretty fun at -2...but what's yours at?

Honestly -2 is gonna be fine up to summer tires e.g., PS4S. In fact, the PS4S are actually really good on track. You may not need more tire for quite some time, and that camber should work well for them. Leave it as is. (But please get away from the all seasons for track use... )

For reference mine was at -3.5. Great for autocross (mandatory if it's lowered), but overkill unless you're on 200TW tires. Honestly... I didn't really see much negatives to -3.5 degrees camber. Tire wear was not a concern, and the only drivability issues I noticed was extra tramlining. Still, -2 should be perfectly acceptable for a performance-oriented setting.

Will miss you around here @optronix ! The rs3 is a tremendously nicer car. I'm a big, big fan of the latest ones. Yes they miss some of the steering feel, but you have your miata for that! Nothing beats a miata as a sports car. If I could fit kid car seats in the back I would get an rs3, but for my street oriented instructor car/toy I like the idea of driving around my kids... Plus my 2yo is a little daredevil who eggs me on to go faster all the time. She's trouble.

I feel like I'll probably still drop in from time to time. And yeah, the RS3 is definitely a downgrade in the space department! The DE5 has a SHOCKING amount of space.

 

[ABPDE5]

Come back and check in on us every once in a while!

I had a feeling the Miata purchase would lead you here, haha. It just seems like a better option for AutoX anyway (and the 2 car solution is > one compromised car). Enjoy!

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Thanks Victor, I did notice that I was nowhere approaching the limits even in all season tires at my first 2 track days, including the Glen (except the brakes of course). What alignment do you recommend. I have -2 up front now with the pins in and other than fluid and pads I'm stock. I don't want to have to realign it all the time between street and track...and it was pretty fun at -2...but what's yours at?

Like optronix said, the 2 range is totally fine for the ps4s and pretty good for the milder 200tw (the more endurance/consistency minded ones which you want when developing skillset anyway).

I'm running 3.4/3.6, but I'm also running either slicks or the extreme 200tw with carbotech xp12 pads (very, very aggressive). My camber is there because of how much entry G I can generate with tire and trail brake. My tire wear was showing me that it was necessary, so the change. 0 toe, factory castor.

Toe is what changes turn in rate and mid corner balance. Start at 0 all around or 0 front with a hair of toe in rear for high speed stability. That brings the car to neutral and then you can work from there what you want.

From there, track your tire pressure and adjust balance with it to fine tune day of. The ps4s like to be at 44psi hot front and 40psi hot rear. Other tires may like higher or lower, so start with just the ps4s and the pressure on the door when cold (when hot it will work to 44/40 on its own). Want more rotation? Increase rear pressure by 3 psi. Want less? Reduce by 3psi.

 

[mopar_man]

Dang, sorry to see this as I’ve enjoyed your insights. Good luck with the RS3.

 

[Hakmamba]

Congrats, I find myself wanting a ND at times. But eerie I'm going in reverse order of you

I went from: RS3 -> ND Miata -> ITS - > Porsche Cayman GTS

If I recall, you went came from GTS Boxster - > ITS -> ND Miata - > RS3 (give or take a few cars)

 

[UWU-mancer]

To be an enthusiast is to want to experience everything. Some of us are blessed enough to be able to experience more and there’s nothing wrong with taking advantage of that

I myself have been taking hard looks at the c8 grandsport, emira v6 and 911 t. I just don’t feel ready to let the integra go yet. As if I’m not done having fun with it.

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