6MT stock clutch longevity

[optronix]

Lol clutch lasting 50k = L2D

Only ever had to replace a clutch someone else fucked up. Yes I race my cars.

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[UWU-mancer]

What the hell is L2D?!

 

[whtciv2k]

I can’t speak for these newer cars but I’ve put 100k miles or more on my manual cars before getting rid of them. Usually during trade in, they would ask when I changed the clutch since it feels good and grabs well. They usually are shocked to know it’s the factory clutch. I do drive my cars hard, downshift a lot, and engine brake a ton. I don’t really do burnouts and dump the clutch from a dig tho. It’s all about how much u do or don’t ride the clutch as you drive.

 

[optronix]

What the hell is L2D?!

Learn 2 Drive lol.

We can have a discussion around "technique" all day long but I think it breaks down to simple mistakes people probably don't realize they're making. I've heard of people absent-mindedly resting their foot on the clutch while cruising- that'll do it. Probably a myriad of variations to this move that ruins clutches prematurely. Also, one or two seriously bad mistakes can reduce a clutch's life significantly in an instant. One thing I'm not proud of is how I snapped a front axle shaft on an Eagle Talon TSi/AWD dumping the clutch at 6k rpm. That goes the other way with extra slipping and the clutch's life expectancy drops by 50%. Fortunately I learned my lesson that day but I've also heard of and even witnessed people doing this to M cars, Porsches, etc. (a McLaren at a cars and coffee IIRC...).

L2D.

 

[SeanIsElsewhere]

That’s what my son did on his 10gen si coupe. Even the w2 turbo swap doesn’t challenge it.

Good to hear that even with the bolt-ons, the exedy clutch stands tall!

 

[UWU-mancer]

Learn 2 Drive lol.

We can have a discussion around "technique" all day long but I think it breaks down to simple mistakes people probably don't realize they're making. I've heard of people absent-mindedly resting their foot on the clutch while cruising- that'll do it. Probably a myriad of variations to this move that ruins clutches prematurely. Also, one or two seriously bad mistakes can reduce a clutch's life significantly in an instant. One thing I'm not proud of is how I snapped a front axle shaft on an Eagle Talon TSi/AWD dumping the clutch at 6k rpm. That goes the other way with extra slipping and the clutch's life expectancy drops by 50%. Fortunately I learned my lesson that day but I've also heard of and even witnessed people doing this to M cars, Porsches, etc. (a McLaren at a cars and coffee IIRC...).

L2D.

Thnx! But damn dude I feel like no one would’ve known what that shit meant

 

[optronix]

Thnx! But damn dude I feel like no one would’ve known what that shit meant

I kind of post sometimes to amuse myself and myself only.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Like everyone said, driver and torque dependent.

With these full face organic clutches there's always some wear under power, even when not slipping. Just the nature of having a clutch that doesn't jerk you around and act like an on/off switch. The low rpm and high torque nature of how turbo power comes on doesn't help things.

For most newbies to manuals I've found they create the most wear slipping too long and too high rpm in first when setting off then second is releasing the clutch too fast on downshifts. 1500+ rpm and 3s of feathering the clutch to set off will dramatically shorten life when someone is doing it 12 times a day. Keep it under 1k rpm and a second of slip max and the clutch will last a lot longer.

 

[boosted_canoe]

Like everyone said, driver and torque dependent.

With these full face organic clutches there's always some wear under power, even when not slipping. Just the nature of having a clutch that doesn't jerk you around and act like an on/off switch. The low rpm and high torque nature of how turbo power comes on doesn't help things.

For most newbies to manuals I've found they create the most wear slipping too long and too high rpm in first when setting off then second is releasing the clutch too fast on downshifts. 1500+ rpm and 3s of feathering the clutch to set off will dramatically shorten life when someone is doing it 12 times a day. Keep it under 1k rpm and a second of slip max and the clutch will last a lot longer.

if it's not slipping, how is it wearing?

 

[Victorofhavoc]

if it's not slipping, how is it wearing?

It's load vs no load. With any load the friction material flexes and heats up. There's tiny flexion and constant movement. More torque means more load.

 

[Xelloss]

Reading this I feel kinda bad, because I slip more than needed sometimes if I'm not paying attention. Because in my WRX, a degree of slip was pretty much necessary when shifting 1st->2nd because of the gearing to both not stall and have a smooth transition especially at low speeds.

ITS has a much better gearbox that requires little/no slip, but sometimes if my mind wanders I'll be too slow off the clutch out of habit.

....so I just tell myself I'm giving myself a reason for a future upgrade...

 

[boosted_canoe]

It's load vs no load. With any load the friction material flexes and heats up. There's tiny flexion and constant movement. More torque means more load.

interesting. i guess i thought it was only siipping the clutch that created heat.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

interesting. i guess i thought it was only siipping the clutch that created heat.

The clutch is technically always slipping, even under constant tension. The friction material is designed to take two flat circular surfaces and "join them" with pressure and friction material. The full face organic stuff is the softest and smoothest to engage so it heavily relies on the force generated by the springs in the pressure plate.

Take your hands and press them together then try and twist to force them apart. You'll feel your skin and muscles in your hand twisting before the contact fully let's go and you separate them. Same thing is happening on the clutch with the organic material.

Under heavy load, this twisting back and forth is what causes the heat build up and wear. The pressure plate also feels it and when the springs get hot they aren't quite as springy so you lose a bit of tension. That also means the friction material has to work harder because less force is pressing it against the flywheel.

Another way to consider it is comparing high gear low rpm to low gear low rpm. In high gear and low rpm, mashing the throttle with a weak or worn clutch leads to a slip and the revs shooting off. That's the easy test to tell you when your clutch is getting ready to go. So why doesn't it slip like that in lower gears? Discarding torque reduction for discussion sake, lower gear means less drivetrain load and resistance. More load exists in higher gears because it's harder to spin the wheels at those speeds and more load means more tension on the clutch face, more heat, and ultimately more wear.

So if you're tuned and never mash on it hard in lower gears, but at peak boost on the highway you're always playing with it by tipping in throttle and shooting off to high speeds under high gear and high boost scenarios, you'll wear the clutch out faster.

Yes slipping it still typically generates more wear than static torque on the face, but the explanation is geared at "why does no perceived slip cause wear".

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