What Makes Type R More Track Ready?

[tlr3715]

Seems like in many of the marketing materials Acura is trying to make it clear the Integra Type S is not meant for the track and the Civic Type R is. Even though the Integra seems to keep up and sometimes outperforms the type R on certain tracks from videos I’ve seen. Other than the suspension settings, what makes Acura feel like it is not a track ready car? Is it missing any cooling components that the Type R has?

Sponsored

 

[creaturemachine]

Dealer mark-up.

 

[SilverRocket]

A stiffer suspension, bucket seats and optionally available Cup2 tires. Technically you could also claim the LogR app, but yeah, not much.

 

[SocalDE5]

The wing

 

[Wolfman]

Nothing, people say seats hold you in better. The ITS has better suspension, stiffer suspension/steering doesnt equal better track times and for the most part is marketed as more sporty.
The spoiler, may cause more downforce but i so far havent seen any laptimes that dont show the two vehicles within seconds of eachother. The ITS does lack the Honda LogR data, but does have laptime stuff in the dash.
Some of the biggest mods people do for CTR is what the ITS have standard, better exhaust/better suspension and both cars people generally lower the rims from 19 to 18 and get more tire.

 

[elh0102]

I think the boy-racer styling of the Civic puts more of those cars in the hands of, well, boy racers who are more likely to pursue track time. My guess, if both cars, with the same tires, were driven by the same driver, track times would be nearly identical. If the damper settings on the Civic are much stiffer than the ITS, it may likely be counterproductive, resulting in less consistent tire contact on anything other than a glass-smooth track surface.

 

[optronix]

The badge.

It's 90% marketing and 10% "tuning"; FL5 has a stiffer suspension, DE5 has more power. But they are identical vehicles for all intents and purposes, and the only tangible differences that could manifest any type of results on a track are software related.

One could argue the seats do have a distinct performance advantage and I wouldn't really debate it. The seats in the Integra are the only true disappointment I've ever had with the car since its reveal. They're serviceable, but the seats in the FL5 are some of the best factory performance seats available in any car. It is debatable if seats can actually provide a measurable advantage in a track setting.

LogR seems like mostly a gimmick, but some people say they use it. Tires are always something that needs to be considered like for like, the fact that Cup2s are "available" from the factory is also a marketing gimmick; they're installed at the dealer anyway lol. Cooling system is virtually identical in every way. Downforce could be debatable but probably not at the types of speeds these cars could achieve anywhere close to stock.

In any case, neither of these cars are really the type of cars you'd use as a dedicated track toy anyway IMHO. They're both cars that are wonderful to drive on the road, and capable of surviving on the track. In the right hands sure it can be impressive and shame cars that are much higher in the hierarchy of sports cars if that's a scale you measure against - but like for like there are much better/faster platforms out there; Camaro SS 1LE, M2, Supra, RS3, Dark Horse, even a Miata just to name a few that are also available to buy today, some at similar price points. This platform's distinct advantages are that it has 4 door practicality, and a "driver's car" focus with the inputs that is pretty much unrivaled especially at the price point... but it's not a top-tier track car by any stretch, and even as much of a die-hard fan of this platform as I am I wouldn't use this car for that.

 

[StingertimeNC]

Agree on the seats. The wing is more for looks. Probably giving you so little downforce below 100 mph that it's not a factor.

One thing to note, The ITS damper module is a big hit with the CTR crowd.

Brake pads, fluid, and some track tires and you have yourself a CTR. (both cars need pads and fluid)

No real differences if they have the same tire.

 

[lumper]

Seems like in many of the marketing materials Acura is trying to make it clear the Integra Type S is not meant for the track and the Civic Type R is. Even though the Integra seems to keep up and sometimes outperforms the type R on certain tracks from videos I’ve seen. Other than the suspension settings, what makes Acura feel like it is not a track ready car? Is it missing any cooling components that the Type R has?

The suspension module offers a track specific setting that is super harsh on regular roads, and the gauges and Hondata info like oil pressure, temperature gauges, plus type R dash and shift lights.
Ther seats are also track ready compared to the DE5.
Other than those things, the cars are pretty much the same unless I am forgetting something.

 

[Tw1stedlog1k]

I remember Jonathan Rivers specifically pointing out that there was no aero advantage from the Type R to the Type S despite the lack of a big wing. The Type S has built in aero behind the front lower air dams vs the Type R's rear wing. Plus have you seen the rear diffuser on our cars? They're very pretty.

 

[elh0102]

If the suspension settings of the Type R include damper settings that are much stiffer than the ITS, I might question any value in it. Since a key goal is to maintain good tire contact with the road, my seat-of-the-pants feel tells me that the Integra sport plus setting is plenty firm.

 

[Wolfman]

Also I know early type r suffered from lack of cooling. I haven’t heard the same for the ITS. I think the new type r is better but I think in heavy track use also suffers. Maybe someone can correct me.

 

[optronix]

Also I know early type r suffered from lack of cooling. I haven’t heard the same for the ITS. I think the new type r is better but I think in heavy track use also suffers. Maybe someone can correct me.

From all the anecdotal data my eyes have extracted, they're about the same. My guess is there are considerably more FL5s being taken to the track than DE5s. There is much discussion on this topic on the civic forums; general consensus is it's rare for a factory stock car to overheat, but it does apparently happen. Getting people to agree on what "overheat" actually means, however... some people claim that "overheating" means the temperature reading goes above a certain point they're not comfortable with.

I think my source of truth is @Zygrene. It would be tough to find someone who tracks their car more, and he goes at a rapid pace; far more rapid than I ever will. He's had some issues with overheating, but IIRC they were pretty much exclusively related to mods. Bar and plate intercoolers in particular have shown to have a high correlation with overheating on track.

 

[StingertimeNC]

I haven't had any issues at the track with cooling. I only run at VIR, and I do not have an aftermarket intercooler. I probably suffer from some heat soak on inlet temps as the car feels less fast in the afternoon vs. the morning. (at the track) No issues with coolant though. Hasn't ever reached 5 bars even. No clue on the oil temp of course. One of my type R buddies actually attached an aux temp guage for the oil temp and said the actual was very close to the Log R reading so he wasn't going to bother with it.

 

[StingertimeNC]

From all the anecdotal data my eyes have extracted, they're about the same. My guess is there are considerably more FL5s being taken to the track than DE5s. There is much discussion on this topic on the civic forums; general consensus is it's rare for a factory stock car to overheat, but it does apparently happen. Getting people to agree on what "overheat" actually means, however... some people claim that "overheating" means the temperature reading goes above a certain point they're not comfortable with.

I think my source of truth is @Zygrene. It would be tough to find someone who tracks their car more, and he goes at a rapid pace; far more rapid than I ever will. He's had some issues with overheating, but IIRC they were pretty much exclusively related to mods. Bar and plate intercoolers in particular have shown to have a high correlation with overheating on track.

I was just at the track with 15 Type R's, Only 4 were running faster laps than me, two of them stock, and nobody had overheating issues. Ambient temps were in the 70's

Sponsored