Track Prep

[StingertimeNC]

I'll most likely be there, and if so would love to take a ride.

Sounds great. I’ll connect with you prior to the event.

 

[JesseP]

Hey guys. I want to make sure I'm buying the right brake fluid for this. Amazon seems to think this doesn't go with my ITS, but this is what was recommended. Also, do I get two bottles or more if I'm replacing all four brakes? https://www.amazon.com/Motul-MTL101...21pAnSA==&sprefix=motul+rbf+660,aps,93&sr=8-4

 

[StingertimeNC]

yes, this is the correct stuff! Get two bottles, you'll probably use 1 and a 1/4 bottles just to be safe.

 

[JesseP]

Acura said if they entered that I brought my own brake fluid on the service contract, there may be warranty issues later. They had their own dot 4 fluid they use, so I agreed to use theirs. I don't want something to happened and they blame it on aftermarket brake fluid. Just a heads-up for anyone having the dealership do the fluid flush.

 

[evanescent03]

Acura said if they entered that I brought my own brake fluid on the service contract, there may be warranty issues later. They had their own dot 4 fluid they use, so I agreed to use theirs. I don't want something to happened and they blame it on aftermarket brake fluid. Just a heads-up for anyone having the dealership do the fluid flush.

that is pretty wild… I wonder what warranty claim would be related to a specific brake fluid. As long as you use a dot three or dot four it seems like there should never be a problem.

Granted if you flush the brakes yourself and introduce a bunch of air and cause problems, that seems like that would be the understandable, but I totally separate issue.

kind of seen was like a line of dealership BS to me. There has been a lot of discussion about voiding warranties when you modify a car. To keep in mind that if you modify some, you may cause some warranty claims issues with that particular intervention, but should not affect unrelated items, like if you do your own brake fluid but have an inch failure there should be zero correlation. of course we all take our own risk based on what we read on the Internet and even when we do things correctly, we can still get screwed over.

Personally, I would consider talking to another shop that is willing to help you out.

 

[optronix]

Nah, I get where the dealer is coming from. It's going to introduce a liability from their perspective for any deviation aside what you get from the manufacturer.

The key though is that any "denial" of warranty would have to do specifically with the brakes. But even if they do the work, it's not OEM fluid. If I was a dealer I'd take the same position and deny a claim if the brakes failed.

 

[evanescent03]

No way! I totally disagree.

What kind of brake failure are you thinking could be caused by a non-OEM but tried & true DOT3 or 4 fluid? RBF or Castrol or another quality fluid. Don’t hand them toothpaste and ask for them to use that lol.

I’ve never heard of brand specific brake fluid in a car. Most auto companies allow wide range or gas, oil, tires etc without voiding any warranties. Why would brake fluid all of a sudden void a war want? They like to throw that around to scare people into using their stuff at their shop.



Dealership silliness. I’ve had numerous dealerships use my DOT4 fluid. Of course OP’s dealership had the right to refuse but i don’t get it. Maybe it’s only a Honda/Acura thing but I hope not because that’s ridiculous.

peace of mind is worth something (which makes dealerships lots of money) so doing what they say usually is a safe bet. Annoying the games they play tho.

 

[evanescent03]

No way! I totally disagree.

What kind of brake failure are you thinking could be caused by a non-OEM but tried & true DOT3 or 4 fluid? RBF or Castrol or another quality fluid. Don’t hand them toothpaste and ask for them to use that lol.

I’ve never heard of brand specific brake fluid in a car. Most auto companies allow wide range or gas, oil, tires etc without voiding any warranties. Why would brake fluid all of a sudden void a war want? They like to throw that around to scare people into using their stuff at their shop.



Dealership silliness. I’ve had numerous dealerships use my DOT4 fluid. Of course OP’s dealership had the right to refuse but i don’t get it. Maybe it’s only a Honda/Acura thing but I hope not because that’s ridiculous.

peace of mind is worth something (which makes dealerships lots of money) so doing what they say usually is a safe bet. Annoying the games they play tho.

In Acura’s defense (and OP/optronix) :

the manual specifies exact fluids for brakes, trans, engine coolant. Brake fluid they say that isn’t Acura Heavy Duty DOT3 can cause corrosion…. but non AcuraHD fluid can be used temporarily.

I find it VERY hard to believe any of the decent quality fluids are any more hygroscopic/corrosive than Acura’s formulation. Maybe their brake system is highly susceptible to corrosion. I’m not an auto mechanic or engineer so take my outrage with a grain of salt…. I might look into this more and report back with more solid evidence lol. I imagine this is an example of CYA and dealership profits though. List of service receipts makes the next owner feel warm and fuzzy which is nice, too.

 

[evanescent03]

And finally (for now) fresh fluid is important and I bet the Acura stuff works quite well when fresh! I wouldn’t hesitate to go full send with it in there!

 

[stanleywinthrop]

Acura said if they entered that I brought my own brake fluid on the service contract, there may be warranty issues later. They had their own dot 4 fluid they use, so I agreed to use theirs. I don't want something to happened and they blame it on aftermarket brake fluid. Just a heads-up for anyone having the dealership do the fluid flush.

100% hogwash. If the car is rated for dot 4 (which they seem to admit), any properly rated dot 4 brake fluid will not invalidate the warranty. These dealers openly flaunt moss-magnuson.

 

[optronix]

In Acura’s defense (and OP/optronix) :

the manual specifies exact fluids for brakes, trans, engine coolant. Brake fluid they say that isn’t Acura Heavy Duty DOT3 can cause corrosion…. but non AcuraHD fluid can be used temporarily.

I find it VERY hard to believe any of the decent quality fluids are any more hygroscopic/corrosive than Acura’s formulation. Maybe their brake system is highly susceptible to corrosion. I’m not an auto mechanic or engineer so take my outrage with a grain of salt…. I might look into this more and report back with more solid evidence lol. I imagine this is an example of CYA and dealership profits though. List of service receipts makes the next owner feel warm and fuzzy which is nice, too.

None of that hygroscopic stuff matters. It is 100% CYA for the dealer. I don't think profits has much to do with it- I can't imagine the margin being very high on dealer-provided brake fluid...

But try to think of it purely from the perspective of a business, cast aside all this "enthusiast" bias. If it were me, I would only allow use of specific types of oil, let alone brake fluid. It's just an unacceptable amount of rigor to attempt to honor a warranty for an item with as many variables as all the different types of brake fluids available in the market.

Possibly if I cared to research more on what the actual standards are for DOT certification for brake fluid or whatever and "hygroscopic/corrosive properties" were among the tangible metrics that were measured and accounted for during the certification process, then maybe I'd consider allowing a certain standard. I think I recall Porsche doing something like this, and even some top enthusiast choices like AMSoil were off the list of "approved" oils or something like that...

But if we're just talking about what we should expect a dealership to cover if we start "doing our own thing" with our cars? I think it's pretty easy to get carried away.

 

[evanescent03]

None of that hygroscopic stuff matters. It is 100% CYA for the dealer. I don't think profits has much to do with it- I can't imagine the margin being very high on dealer-provided brake fluid...

But try to think of it purely from the perspective of a business, cast aside all this "enthusiast" bias. If it were me, I would only allow use of specific types of oil, let alone brake fluid. It's just an unacceptable amount of rigor to attempt to honor a warranty for an item with as many variables as all the different types of brake fluids available in the market.

Possibly if I cared to research more on what the actual standards are for DOT certification for brake fluid or whatever and "hygroscopic/corrosive properties" were among the tangible metrics that were measured and accounted for during the certification process, then maybe I'd consider allowing a certain standard. I think I recall Porsche doing something like this, and even some top enthusiast choices like AMSoil were off the list of "approved" oils or something like that...

But if we're just talking about what we should expect a dealership to cover if we start "doing our own thing" with our cars? I think it's pretty easy to get carried away.

I think this might be a case of lawyers stepping into engineering … kind of like when insurance companies dictate medical care. it doesn’t make sense but they also end up being the gate keeper.

I find it hard to believe A) Honda makes a crazy frail/corrosion prone system or B) they make DOT3 fluid that is far and away better than the rest of the market. Are there bargain/junk “DOT3” fluids that may cause problems in any cars? Possibly. I understand having some standards, but suggesting your product needs a proprietary fluid to function properly is hogwash.

having standards: totally get it
obscenely tight standards in an imperfect world? Silly.

“we noticed your tire was 3psi low for a week before you topped it off this winter. Therefore we can’t honor your transmission warranty”….. lol

And technically …. I think per the Magnussen Act or something similar, the burden of proof is on the dealership to show our deviation from the prescribed fluids/etc caused the issue.

My responses have been somewhat emotionally charged and I don’t feel good telling people to deviate from the manual but I know that this won’t keep me from putting SRF in the ITS if I end up tracking it … we all have our own risk thresholds.

I also am a huge advocate for being honest to the dealership. I had a Subaru STi blow a motor after downpipes, exhaust and tune. Took it to the dealer just like that and they still replaced it bc it was a well known ringland issue. I def was taking a risk but honest paid off. We def take some risks by doing certain things (has anyone heard/read an official stance on us tracking CTR/ITS and warranty coverage?).

I wonder how much that Acura super fluid is running?

 

[StingertimeNC]

Agree with both of you to some degree.

But if Acura could even tell I put RBF 660 brake fluid in, I would be shocked! Any experienced technician or shop manager shouldn't hesitate on something like that. Just stupid CYA crap.

I also firmly believe that it's probably better fluid than what comes in the car.

I also believe they make a decent markup on all their fluids, as they are probably purchased in bulk at low contract prices.

It's stuff like this that makes me not trust dealers.

That being said, I would use and have purchased Honda brand coolant, just in case I need to top it off at home, or at the track, and in case I need to change the overflow reservoir on the fly. I wouldn't mix different coolants in the car.

But damn these stupid dealers!! LOL.

 

[optronix]

But damn these stupid dealers!! LOL.

I think we're getting pretty far off track here. My point is neither to incite rage against the dealers or try to justify some of their reasons that could lead to a warranty claim denial, it's just a reminder of the basic understanding that they're trying to run a business. And enthusiasts are probably the most annoying customers ever.

we all have our own risk thresholds.

^this, this right here. I'm not trying to scare anyone into not putting different brake fluid in their cars. All I'm saying is that if you do AND SOMETHING GOES WRONG, with your brakes specifically, then don't be shocked when you're looking at a claim denial. If that's ok with you, then by all means swap the fluid! I'll be changing my fluid out too eventually, if that makes you feel any better.

The tricky part comes in when asking the dealer to do it for you.. It's kind of like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation and I'm not sure there's a right answer- but again, my point is that I totally see why the dealer would explicitly call out that if you use something other than what they have on their shelf, then that introduces risk. It's more of a disclaimer than anything. It just should be understood and all this talk of "super fluid" and "lawyers getting in the way of engineering" is just misplaced rage IMO.

 

[evanescent03]

It just should be understood and all this talk of "super fluid" and "lawyers getting in the way of engineering" is just misplaced rage IMO.

Agree to disagree. Again, unless this super fluid is truly something unique only to Acura and no other safe fluid exists, then sure. I suspect that isnt the case and it would’ve been nice if they said “be sure to use blah blah certified DOT 3 or 4 fluid, ideally Acura’s Heavy Duty magic, use of fluids that do not meet those standards may cause brake failure and damage may not be covered under warranty.” pigeonholing us into using their fluids for sure keeps money in house and helps their profits. Maybe not a ton…. But selling more likely makes them more money than selling less.

I want to dig more into the topic tho bc I’m gonna be realllly unhinged if I find out the Acura HD fluid is relabeled RBF 600