Autocross megathread

[Underdog]

Not strictly autocross related, but wondering if anyone here has transported a full set of wheels/tires in their ITS? Seems like they may fit with the rear seats down.

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[mattm]

I put 4 copper wheels with tires mounted in the back. The Rear seats were folded down. Three were flat on the floor, the fourth was at an angle leaning on one of the others.

 

[Underdog]

I put 4 copper wheels with tires mounted in the back. The Rear seats were folded down. Three were flat on the floor, the fourth was at an angle leaning on one of the others.

Thanks man. Those copper wheels of yours are exactly why I'm asking!

 

[optronix]

Not strictly autocross related, but wondering if anyone here has transported a full set of wheels/tires in their ITS? Seems like they may fit with the rear seats down.

Personally I transported the OEM wheels with tires mounted back home after getting my aftermarket wheels on the car. Not much of a problem...

I think I recall seeing a video from Gridzilla, who if you're not familiar is a YouTube guy that has really good track content for his FL5. I believe he was successful in getting 4 wheels AND 4 tires in his car simultaneously when he took them to a shop to get mounted. I don't have too much time at the moment to go digging for that video but it should give the impression that 4 wheels with tires mounted should actually leave a little room to spare.

 

[Underdog]

Personally I transported the OEM wheels with tires mounted back home after getting my aftermarket wheels on the car. Not much of a problem...

I think I recall seeing a video from Gridzilla, who if you're not familiar is a YouTube guy that has really good track content for his FL5. I believe he was successful in getting 4 wheels AND 4 tires in his car simultaneously when he took them to a shop to get mounted. I don't have too much time at the moment to go digging for that video but it should give the impression that 4 wheels with tires mounted should actually leave a little room to spare.

Thanks for the reply and info. I am familiar with Gridzilla, through Zygrene’s content. Good to know we can haul a spare set, if needed!

 

[RamVA]

Not strictly autocross related, but wondering if anyone here has transported a full set of wheels/tires in their ITS? Seems like they may fit with the rear seats down.

Easy fit, but better if you take out the package shelf first and leave it at home.

 

[Gernett]

Not strictly autocross related, but wondering if anyone here has transported a full set of wheels/tires in their ITS? Seems like they may fit with the rear seats down.

I can fit a set of 275 35 R18 RT660 with 18x9.5 +45 wheels and a set of 245 45 R18 Blizzak in my trunk with rear seats down. I can fit them better if I was not in a rush lol.

 

[Underdog]

I can fit a set of 275 35 R18 RT660 with 18x9.5 +45 wheels and a set of 245 45 R18 Blizzak in my trunk with rear seats down. I can fit them better if I was not in a rush lol.

That is impressive! I only needed to carry one set, but this is good to know!

 

[Sinnelizer]

Anyone is AX-ing their ITS? Wonder what is the tyre pressure you all run. Street stock Michelin tires. Elantra N yesterday advised 42 psi in front and 39 in back, which is a bit high, i think. I tried 38 psi square and it worked well. My first weekend in a new car. Transitioning from a RWD Camaro SS.

 

[optronix]

Anyone is AX-ing their ITS? Wonder what is the tyre pressure you all run. Street stock Michelin tires. Elantra N yesterday advised 42 psi in front and 39 in back, which is a bit high, i think. I tried 38 psi square and it worked well. My first weekend in a new car. Transitioning from a RWD Camaro SS.

Yeah, I've put quite a bit of AX time in. The Michelins are acceptable but don't set your expectations too high; if anyone out there is on 200 TW tires you'll get wasted. Also, autocross will chew the PS4S up pretty quickly on the inside edge, just FYI. I killed mine in about 5 events, less than 8k overall miles...

As for pressures, the 265/30 tires want a good amount of air or they will roll over. Reference the "triangles" to dial in; it's been a while since I used the Michelins for autocross but I think 38 is a fair target to hit. Just remember you'll have to very likely let air out after the first ~2-4 runs as the tires get hotter.

If you've been autocrossing a lot in your Camaro then there may be a bit of adjustment; but this platform does not have the typical FWD challenges. It rotates very well, to the point of being damn near tail-happy. The key difference is that you induce oversteer by letting off the throttle rather than slamming it down. Takes some getting used to but is its own version of fun.

 

[Sinnelizer]

Yeah, I've put quite a bit of AX time in. The Michelins are acceptable but don't set your expectations too high; if anyone out there is on 200 TW tires you'll get wasted. Also, autocross will chew the PS4S up pretty quickly on the inside edge, just FYI. I killed mine in about 5 events, less than 8k overall miles...

As for pressures, the 265/30 tires want a good amount of air or they will roll over. Reference the "triangles" to dial in; it's been a while since I used the Michelins for autocross but I think 38 is a fair target to hit. Just remember you'll have to very likely let air out after the first ~2-4 runs as the tires get hotter.

If you've been autocrossing a lot in your Camaro then there may be a bit of adjustment; but this platform does not have the typical FWD challenges. It rotates very well, to the point of being damn near tail-happy. The key difference is that you induce oversteer by letting off the throttle rather than slamming it down. Takes some getting used to but is its own version of fun.

Whoa, thank you for sharing the video. 38 psi square, and i bleed some air during runs. And I chalk the triangles, so I don't go over. I used to have a square set of PS4S tires on my Camaro, and it lasted me 15-16 events. Interesting, that for FWD it is 3 times less. And I used to overdrive that car.

A few questions, please. Do you run in the BS class? Or did your wheels bumped you out of it? I am thinking about 200TW, but I can't find anything for the factory wheel size I have now, feels like I need to invest in another spare set of wheels and tires for AX days. What did you opt for?

Also I noticed that you shifted to 2nd gear at 5k RPM, but then you hit (twice, I guess) the red zone in 2nd, and you didn't shift. I chickened out yesterday, and my Solostorm logs showed it aganst the other drivers, they hit over 60 mph, while I stayed under because I didn't want to shift and didn't want to stay in the red zone. So, it's ok to stay in the red for a second or so? Not sure whether I should push harder of shift. Probably not shifting, but...

I have just set up an aligment appointment for tomorrow. Gonna have zero front toe, and 1/8 toe out in rear, per advice here from somebody else. What did you go for, if any?

 

[optronix]

Whoa, thank you for sharing the video. 38 psi square, and i bleed some air during runs. And I chalk the triangles, so I don't go over. I used to have a square set of PS4S tires on my Camaro, and it lasted me 15-16 events. Interesting, that for FWD it is 3 times less. And I used to overdrive that car.

A few questions, please. Do you run in the BS class? Or did your wheels bumped you out of it? I am thinking about 200TW, but I can't find anything for the factory wheel size I have now, feels like I need to invest in another spare set of wheels and tires for AX days. What did you opt for?

Also I noticed that you shifted to 2nd gear at 5k RPM, but then you hit (twice, I guess) the red zone in 2nd, and you didn't shift. I chickened out yesterday, and my Solostorm logs showed it aganst the other drivers, they hit over 60 mph, while I stayed under because I didn't want to shift and didn't want to stay in the red zone. So, it's ok to stay in the red for a second or so? Not sure whether I should push harder of shift. Probably not shifting, but...

I have just set up an aligment appointment for tomorrow. Gonna have zero front toe, and 1/8 toe out in rear, per advice here from somebody else. What did you go for, if any?

Yeah I short shifted a bit in the video, don't really have a reason why just instinct I guess because it tends to spin tires more than chirp if I wind it out to redline on that surface. As for not shifting at the end of the slalom, that was an active choice- by the time I shifted I'd be ready to brake and then there was a tricky sequence right after that so I just elected to bounce off the rev limiter. In retrospect I should have at least tried to shift but again- instinct was to just leave it. I landed with a pretty respectable time I believe 8th overall out of 80+ (mostly Porsche) participants but yeah- I still second guess myself if that was the right call. I definitely still have room for improvement lol.

If you were just asking about hurting the car by hitting the rev limiter, absolutely not- that's what it's there for. A mechanical overrev is what you need to watch out for, but that will only happen with a mis-shift (i.e., "money shift"). Hitting the factory rev limiter just cuts gas- and while I won't say it's "harmless" per se, it's not necessarily a significant event in the life of the engine. I would actually claim harmless but someone would chime in with a "well actually" regarding drivetrain shock, EGT temps, etc... but as far as I'm concerned, part of the job we ask these engines to do. A "money shift"- DIFFERENT STORY, because the ECU can't enforce fuel cut to keep the wheels from telling the engine how fast it's going. Don't do that. But IMHO rev limiter is fine (within reason).

Hope that makes sense.

I am not in BS, as you mention just wheels alone bump me out of that class plus it's a tough break competing with Supras and M2s in BS. So technically I'm in BST with the wheels, springs, lower ball joints and intake, but I'm usually flying solo in the events I partake in. This event was not SCCA, this was PCA (Porsche Club of America)- I still go to these events because it was how I got my start in autocross and they welcome all makes and models and generally run their events smoothly with fun courses- and I just like the people and the vibe.

I just bought an ND3 Miata literally 2 weeks ago, I will be doing C Street in that one to see where I actually stand as a driver, but probably just an event or two this season to dip my toes in. Possibly on the crap OEM tires just for fun and a litmus test.

As for tires on the DE5- you have a couple options with the OEM 19s if you want to give B Street a shot- but you're pretty much limited to Falken RT660+, Nankang CRSv2, or Cup2. I would suggest Falken but I destroyed one single tire after just 3 events and they did not warranty it. Just from a Google search I can tell there's an actual problem with RT660s delaminating but just like anything on the Internet, just because you find evidence of a thing does not mean that thing is universally true. So YMMV. Overall I was pretty happy with the Falkens, except in the cold and/or wet. Bridgestones are far superior- that's what I run now specifically the RE-71RZ in 275/35-18 but obviously had to go down to 18s to make that work. You can do that and stay in B street, but you can't change the offset more than plus or minus 7mm and it has to stay the factory width. With 9.5 inches to work with you can still stick a 275 on there without any modifications (I would not try a 275/35-19 though but stay 30 and you should be good).

Alignment- again, if you plan to stay in B Street, you can't change camber. That is the real alignment lever. You can try the "pull the pin" trick of removing the strut tower alignment pins and pushing the struts inboard for about a half a degree or so, which would make a significant difference. Classing legality may be a gray area... in fact I'm almost certain you'd get protested and lose if someone challenged it. If you're not trying to be uber-competitive (good luck if so...), or plan to jump to BST someday anyway sure go ahead. Otherwise just go straight to lower ball joints or "top hats" and get more camber. It is a HUGE difference. I'm running -3.5 in front, around -2.5 in the rear (just natural camber added from lowering springs) and the car feels really good. Good enough where I haven't felt the need for a rear sway bar (@Victorofhavoc will argue that a front sway bar is the way to go... and he's right but it's a PITA so I'll do rear first, if I do it at all).

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Yeah I short shifted a bit in the video, don't really have a reason why just instinct I guess because it tends to spin tires more than chirp if I wind it out to redline on that surface. As for not shifting at the end of the slalom, that was an active choice- by the time I shifted I'd be ready to brake and then there was a tricky sequence right after that so I just elected to bounce off the rev limiter. In retrospect I should have at least tried to shift but again- instinct was to just leave it. I landed with a pretty respectable time I believe 8th overall out of 80+ (mostly Porsche) participants but yeah- I still second guess myself if that was the right call. I definitely still have room for improvement lol.

If you were just asking about hurting the car by hitting the rev limiter, absolutely not- that's what it's there for. A mechanical overrev is what you need to watch out for, but that will only happen with a mis-shift (i.e., "money shift"). Hitting the factory rev limiter just cuts gas- and while I won't say it's "harmless" per se, it's not necessarily a significant event in the life of the engine. I would actually claim harmless but someone would chime in with a "well actually" regarding drivetrain shock, EGT temps, etc... but as far as I'm concerned, part of the job we ask these engines to do. A "money shift"- DIFFERENT STORY, because the ECU can't enforce fuel cut to keep the wheels from telling the engine how fast it's going. Don't do that. But IMHO rev limiter is fine (within reason).

Hope that makes sense.

I am not in BS, as you mention just wheels alone bump me out of that class plus it's a tough break competing with Supras and M2s in BS. So technically I'm in BST with the wheels, springs, lower ball joints and intake, but I'm usually flying solo in the events I partake in. This event was not SCCA, this was PCA (Porsche Club of America)- I still go to these events because it was how I got my start in autocross and they welcome all makes and models and generally run their events smoothly with fun courses- and I just like the people and the vibe.

I just bought an ND3 Miata literally 2 weeks ago, I will be doing C Street in that one to see where I actually stand as a driver, but probably just an event or two this season to dip my toes in. Possibly on the crap OEM tires just for fun and a litmus test.

As for tires on the DE5- you have a couple options with the OEM 19s if you want to give B Street a shot- but you're pretty much limited to Falken RT660+, Nankang CRSv2, or Cup2. I would suggest Falken but I destroyed one single tire after just 3 events and they did not warranty it. Just from a Google search I can tell there's an actual problem with RT660s delaminating but just like anything on the Internet, just because you find evidence of a thing does not mean that thing is universally true. So YMMV. Overall I was pretty happy with the Falkens, except in the cold and/or wet. Bridgestones are far superior- that's what I run now specifically the RE-71RZ in 275/35-18 but obviously had to go down to 18s to make that work. You can do that and stay in B street, but you can't change the offset more than plus or minus 7mm and it has to stay the factory width. With 9.5 inches to work with you can still stick a 275 on there without any modifications (I would not try a 275/35-19 though but stay 30 and you should be good).

Alignment- again, if you plan to stay in B Street, you can't change camber. That is the real alignment lever. You can try the "pull the pin" trick of removing the strut tower alignment pins and pushing the struts inboard for about a half a degree or so, which would make a significant difference. Classing legality may be a gray area... in fact I'm almost certain you'd get protested and lose if someone challenged it. If you're not trying to be uber-competitive (good luck if so...), or plan to jump to BST someday anyway sure go ahead. Otherwise just go straight to lower ball joints or "top hats" and get more camber. It is a HUGE difference. I'm running -3.5 in front, around -2.5 in the rear (just natural camber added from lowering springs) and the car feels really good. Good enough where I haven't felt the need for a rear sway bar (@Victorofhavoc will argue that a front sway bar is the way to go... and he's right but it's a PITA so I'll do rear first, if I do it at all).

Accurate, lol.

I agree the front bar is a pita. It's grip adder in the front and grip reducer in the rear. That's how it generates the rotation.

I haven't read the scca solo rules in a while, but I recall equivalent part options and factory adjustment ranges are legal. Like you can't add concentric bolts, but pulling pins and loosening and tightening some bolts is the same as the NB miata days when those guys would loosen all the bolts and then have 5 people sit on the corner of the car while someone retightened things.

You can't swap in the Fl5 ads though... Which is a major shame since the Fl5 runs in the same class. I can tell you from butt feel, lap times on track (not autox), and tire wear that the Fl5 ads increases dampening rate faster in the rear than the front from the type s. Given they're both BS cars, it's a sucky compromise, but the type s can stuff more tire, which in autox generally wins. If you did swap it, no one could tell other than Fl5 and De5 owners.... So I'm sure someone out there is cheating

 

[mattm]

True^^^

 

[Sinnelizer]

Thank you, all! I technically finished 2nd in BS yesterday (I chickened out for the first event in a new car and registered for a Time Only group), but no Supras were present. The car in front of me was on 200TW tires 2026 Corolla GR. The rest of class ran stock, even a CTR. Thank you for your advice on alignment and psi, my next events are PCA and SCCA in 2 weeks. At PCA I am classified in CC09 (PCA LA let non-Porsches class their cars), but given that CC09 is mostly Boxters, I don't expect much competition (or I need to dial down on my arrogance). A good idea about BST class for SCCA, thank you! Judging by the times they showed yesterday, those guys are close to BS. Again, no Supras spotted there, too.

Thank you, tribe!!

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