9th gen civic si to ITS?

[dsherman12]

Hey, long term Honda fan and I've been saving up to buy a new ITS and was wondering if anyone here has upgraded from a 9th gen Civic Si. My Si got totaled, and I ended up getting a 2009 WRX from a family member for cheap. It's fun and sounds great, but I'm constantly nervous the head gasket is going to blow, haha.

I really loved my Civic Si, and I'm curious how the ITS compares. The plan is likely to throw some winter tires on the WRX and just use it for snow days, while daily driving the ITS.

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[ModJPB]

The ITS is basically a Civic Type R. An amazing car in every performance aspect except comfort. Very fast and can be tuned to be even faster. The suspension handling is the best you can get for front wheel drive. Only downside is between the stiff seats and the overly stiff suspension (even on comfort mode) the car is harsh. The car is an amazing weekend ripper but as a daily driver, that is subjective. I've heard stories of people trading in their itr/ctr because it is so rough riding. Only way to know for yourself is to find a rough road and test drive it, to determine if you want that experience often.

 

[optronix]

The ITS is basically a Civic Type R. An amazing car in every performance aspect except comfort. Very fast and can be tuned to be even faster. The suspension handling is the best you can get for front wheel drive. Only downside is between the stiff seats and the overly stiff suspension (even on comfort mode) the car is harsh. The car is an amazing weekend ripper but as a daily driver, that is subjective. I've heard stories of people trading in their itr/ctr because it is so rough riding. Only way to know for yourself is to find a rough road and test drive it, to determine if you want that experience often.

This isn't an accurate assessment at all. I see the car referenced in your profile and have to assume you don't own an ITS.

Before I even start, I realize I've been accused of being a dick on these boards and have a growing list of folks who are happy to make it clear they've put me on their ignore list. I'm not actively trying to be a dick- but sincerely, people who haven't even driven the car mentioned really should consider keeping their thoughts to themselves. You'd literally get a better response out of chatgpt. It's detrimental to the conversation to chime in with invalidated opinions.

Somebody has to say these things. Block me if you will.

I have owned an ITS for over 2 years. I bought a 9th gen Si for my son back ~2021, and I was actually blown away by how much I liked driving it. So much so it led me to purchasing the ITS.

The ITS is basically just more of everything the Si is, plus some genuine motorsports-inspired engineering that negates the tangible negatives from it being front-wheel drive. Besides the power, that's probably the biggest difference.

Some people have tried to argue that the steering is better in the Si, I vehemently disagree. On top of the Si having an early EPS system which were notoriously numb, the Si feels front-wheel drive- it is certainly fun to drive but that element is abundantly obvious, even with the lower power. The ITS doesn't "eliminate" torque steer like some journalists claim, but it reduces it to a point where it's more of an attribute than a disadvantage. If that makes sense. As much as I love the Si, the obvious-ness that it's front-wheel drive is a definite disadvantage, and that applies to the steering. In my honest assessment the ITS has steering on par with Porsche's best electric racks. Some might claim I'm overstating this but I'd then ask how many Porsches they've owned and driven.

Chassis feel and ride compliance is also at those Porsche-levels too. Personally I like the power delivery although the noise isn't that great, but this was improved dramatically after adding an exhaust and intake. Still nowhere near as good as a high-revving naturally aspirated engine, but it's enjoyable to my ears.

From an everyday driving comfort perspective, I don't notice a substantial difference between my car and my son's. My car is also lowered and obviously has 19" low profile tires and I only notice the ride quality diminishing over the absolute shittiest road surfaces. A 2015 STI I had previously was significantly worse. That car's suspension stayed bone stock the entire time I had it- it rode like hell and I notably hated having to go into DC in that car; I couldn't keep a plastic coffee cup from not spilling in DC. It was ridiculous. Is the Si more comfortable? Probably. But the ITS is not compromised in that department by any means.

If it isn't clear by now, it's a wonderful car to drive. And I'm hard to please. I traded out of a B9.5 Audi RS5 because I couldn't stand the numb steering and chassis feel. I didn't like the F82 M4 steering much either, but that car had a great chassis that made up for it. The ITS is better than both of them, despite being way down on power.

Now to the negatives. The dealer experience sucks but you're used to that. You'll just have to deal with the dealer an extra year, for better or for worse (Acuras have a 4 year warranty vs Honda's 3).

My car rattles like hell; I can't drive 15 feet without some buzzing or rattling going on. It's not necessarily fair to levy that at the build quality though- it got infinitely worse after letting the dealer try to track down what ended up being noise from the wastegate, and now I don't want to take it back for fear they may make it worse- but I noticed several clips broken or missing after I had to plug my traction control button back in after the visit so I might just tell them to replace all the clips they broke, might make things better. So overall my car has been pretty good about build quality, but others have shared some pretty negative experiences with buzzes, rattles, paint defects, etc. that can't be attributed to dealer tech negligence like my issues can.

 

[SilverRocket]

ME.

Firstly, sorry for your loss, sounds like your okay though which is what is really important. I might have already written a comparison post somewhere on this forum but I will resume my opinions on the similarities and differences.

Speed/Acceleration: Night and day difference what 50% more HP will do. Getting on the highway foot buried, the Si was peppy and a bit above average compared to the typical vehicle on the road and you got to experience redline reasonably. Do the same in the ITS, top of 3rd gear is a ticket in most states (89mph) and 4th is straight to jail (122mph). One is not better than the other depends what you are looking for.

Handling: Hard to get an apples to apples comparison seeing that the Civic is 13 year old and worn out a little but the 300lbs difference is noticeable in the corners. The Si is exhilarating in the sense that example a turn at 30mph would make it start to dance and be on the limit where 30mph in the ITS is a one hand on the wheel snooze fest. You'd need to be going 50mph+ to get the same feeling because the ITS is so capable.

Creature Comforts: Honestly comparing the Canadian spec to Canadian spec, all Si's had the GPS DIN so while it's a modernized experience with Android Auto, it basically has a slightly better sound system, a powered seat with lumbar and a heated steering wheel adder in the ITS otherwise not much different.

Practicality: Both are pretty practical but the ITS is that much better. With exception to hauling heavy things, Costco runs and airport pickups are better in the ITS.

Generally the Si is more go-kart like, raw, fun but basic. The ITS is the Civic dialed to 11 however in the transition it loses some of that rawness. Think very much in the same way people complained about the 9th gen when comparing to an EK/EJ.

 

[STi from DSM]

I feel like I can add some value to this convo considering I have owned 3 STi's and 1 WRX that I purchased brand new.
The 2008 was really the achilles heel of Subaru. The STi of that generation had many bugs that needed to be worked out. 2009 was fine. I never really heard of people blowing up their WRX's it was mostly the STi's because people try to tune them past where they should. As long as you keep the mods to a minimum I never had any issue with any of my Subarus.

I have had many performance cars (M5, X3M Comp, RS3, RS5, M850i) all of them were great in their own aspects but they all lacked engagement. A manual makes you work for it. You have to actually drive the car and you make the decision when shifting is right for you.

That is one of the things I love about the Type S. The manual is very good and very easy to drive. The 19's that come standard with it look awesome and the tires feel quite grippy around the corners.

The fit and polish are not 100% there though and I would be remiss if I didn't address some of the downfalls of the car. The radio works ok but there are times I pull away from my parking spot and am driving for upwards of 1-2 minutes before the music starts playing. It doesn't happen every time though and it is only when I have USB selected. There is no trunk pop anywhere on the car other than the trunk. Hitting it on your FOB does nothing. This is a minor annoyance. There is no Homelink. I still find this odd, but not too big of a deal as I just use my clicker instead. There are no rear vents or USB's standard. (Like the Homelink it can be added later on if you choose)

For the price and the performance of the car I think it is a great value.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Multiple subaru owner here and I can also say I've never had a reliability concern with them, except for the clutch assembly ripping away from the firewall, but that's also my fault for putting in a crazy heavy pressure plate. This car does not rip it in second like a tuned ej... It's more linear and a bit "less exciting" in that way, but it also does not understeer heavily like a subaru does!

Like @optronix said, this car has great steering. Better than a Porsche Gt4rs imo after I drove the both back to back on track. Most other modern cars are just plain numb (m3 included).

Honestly, it's been a while since I've driven a 9th gen civic, but I do recall I was impressed with their build quality back then. Everything felt decently solid. One of my friends still drives his daily with 200k miles on it and refuses to get rid of that rust bucket. He has replaced almost all the relays in it at this point, but it still seems decently well put together. I would argue the its build quality is not quite as high, but a lot of modern cars are complicated and I wouldn't necessarily call this car "reliable" given its lack of certain important metrics. His is single/original owner though, and not abused so it has held up well.

 

[whtciv2k]

I h

ME.

Firstly, sorry for your loss, sounds like your okay though which is what is really important. I might have already written a comparison post somewhere on this forum but I will resume my opinions on the similarities and differences.

Speed/Acceleration: Night and day difference what 50% more HP will do. Getting on the highway foot buried, the Si was peppy and a bit above average compared to the typical vehicle on the road and you got to experience redline reasonably. Do the same in the ITS, top of 3rd gear is a ticket in most states (89mph) and 4th is straight to jail (122mph). One is not better than the other depends what you are looking for.

Handling: Hard to get an apples to apples comparison seeing that the Civic is 13 year old and worn out a little but the 300lbs difference is noticeable in the corners. The Si is exhilarating in the sense that example a turn at 30mph would make it start to dance and be on the limit where 30mph in the ITS is a one hand on the wheel snooze fest. You'd need to be going 50mph+ to get the same feeling because the ITS is so capable.

Creature Comforts: Honestly comparing the Canadian spec to Canadian spec, all Si's had the GPS DIN so while it's a modernized experience with Android Auto, it basically has a slightly better sound system, a powered seat with lumbar and a heated steering wheel adder in the ITS otherwise not much different.

Practicality: Both are pretty practical but the ITS is that much better. With exception to hauling heavy things, Costco runs and airport pickups are better in the ITS.

Generally the Si is more go-kart like, raw, fun but basic. The ITS is the Civic dialed to 11 however in the transition it loses some of that rawness. Think very much in the same way people complained about the 9th gen when comparing to an EK/EJ.

I had an 8th gen and now an ITS and can say your assessment is spot on. One thing I’d add is that the 8th/9th gen’s were NA and sounded glorious hitting vtec and letting it sing to 8000+rpm with an intake installed.

 

[ABPDE5]

I h

I had an 8th gen and now an ITS and can say your assessment is spot on. One thing I’d add is that the 8th/9th gen’s were NA and sounded glorious hitting vtec and letting it sing to 8000+rpm with an intake installed.

9th gens didn't have vtec on both cams and only revved to a little past 7, so they're more similar to the ITS in that regard; the transition in engine character won't be as dramatic as it would be from an 8th gen (granted NA vs turbo, etc.).

I have an 8th gen Si as my winter car, and I broke it out last weekend. It's seen better days, but the induction howl still makes me grin.

 

[NoelPR]

In summary the ITS

9th gens didn't have vtec on both cams and only revved to a little past 7, so they're more similar to the ITS in that regard; the transition in engine character won't be as dramatic as it would be from an 8th gen (granted NA vs turbo, etc.).

I have an 8th gen Si as my winter car, and I broke it out last weekend. It's seen better days, but the induction howl still makes me grin.

Throttle response is night and day between a FA5/FG2 vs FL5/DE5. But is part of the deal with a turbocharged engine.

 

[optronix]

9th gens didn't have vtec on both cams and only revved to a little past 7, so they're more similar to the ITS in that regard; the transition in engine character won't be as dramatic as it would be from an 8th gen (granted NA vs turbo, etc.).

I have an 8th gen Si as my winter car, and I broke it out last weekend. It's seen better days, but the induction howl still makes me grin.

I was about to say. The 9th gen doesn't sound all that great lol, and only revs to 7k.

 

[ABPDE5]

In summary the ITS

Throttle response is night and day between a FA5/FG2 vs FL5/DE5. But is part of the deal with a turbocharged engine.

This is true. But, while the engines in those cars were responsive, I think people overlook how bad the DBW system was. There is significant input lag between when you activate the throttle pedal and when the throttle body actually responds.

 

[NoelPR]

This is true. But, while the engines in those cars were responsive, I think people overlook how bad the DBW system was. There is significant input lag between when you activate the throttle pedal and when the throttle body actually responds.

At least flashpro helped with issue.

 

[whtciv2k]

This is true. But, while the engines in those cars were responsive, I think people overlook how bad the DBW system was. There is significant input lag between when you activate the throttle pedal and when the throttle body actually responds.

You just made me remember that the 8th gen had actual real rev hang, not like what folks have been talking about. Upon depressing the clutch on an upshift, the rpm would pause a half second while dropping at the next up-shift point. I think this was intentional to help with smoother upshifting. The “rev hang” people talk about here is something very different.

 

[Cliffpc]

I drive both 8th gen SI and DE5 and notice appreciable differences in throttle response and how you best manage RPM in daily driving. The DE5 is much easier to drive at lower RPMs.

One thing is true of both is that they operate best when up-shifting at or near redline. The SI in particular WANTS to be spun.

 

[SilverRocket]

9th gens didn't have vtec on both cams and only revved to a little past 7, so they're more similar to the ITS in that regard; the transition in engine character won't be as dramatic as it would be from an 8th gen (granted NA vs turbo, etc.).

I have an 8th gen Si as my winter car, and I broke it out last weekend. It's seen better days, but the induction howl still makes me grin.

Actually in regard to RPM, the DE5 and FB2 are identical, both have a 7000 redline with a 7200rpm fuel cutoff.

Even though the 9th gen didn't have exhaust cams (because they flowed well enough to produce 200hp without them), the Si still generally sounds better than the ITS and the only redeeming factor is the burbles in Sport+ mode.

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