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G80 M3 to Type S what do you think?

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tmperez

tmperez

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Just one thing that can be missed - unlike the regular Integra, the Type S has only 2 back seats. No center seat or belts for a 5th passenger.
yeah that’s one of those things that miff me about the car. I get the load capacity but still kind of silly in a modern car. Also no rear vents, why makes nonsense. Still don’t plan to have all 3 kids and a wife in the car at one time. Thanks for pointing that out tho.
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yeah that’s one of those things that miff me about the car. I get the load capacity but still kind of silly in a modern car. Also no rear vents, why makes nonsense. Still don’t plan to have all 3 kids and a wife in the car at one time. Thanks for pointing that out tho.
You can swap the back seats with A-Spec to get the extra seat. I have seen many, including people in this forum, that have done it. So there is option if you want,
 
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tmperez

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You can swap the back seats with A-Spec to get the extra seat. I have seen many, including people in this forum, that have done it. So there is option if you want,
Yeah I’m just reading on that now. Seems like a viable option.
 

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Yeah I’m just reading on that now. Seems like a viable option.
I wouldn't risk it.

All it takes is one accident with a passenger for insurance to deem you reckless and uninsurable for modifying a 4 seat car into a 5 seat... And that's one of the better outcomes.
 

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I wouldn't risk it.

All it takes is one accident with a passenger for insurance to deem you reckless and uninsurable for modifying a 4 seat car into a 5 seat... And that's one of the better outcomes.
Yes, agree there is a risk with this option.
 

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I wouldn't risk it.

All it takes is one accident with a passenger for insurance to deem you reckless and uninsurable for modifying a 4 seat car into a 5 seat... And that's one of the better outcomes.
That's certainly a very real and viable concern!
And it would take a quite detailed comparison of the A-Spec vs ITS to identify all the possible differences and part numbers.
  1. Obviously one would need a new rear bench seat, back rest, and head rest.
  2. Must verify all belt attachment anchor points are still in the ITS body - I would think so, but all the individual OEM hardware bolts, belt shackles, belts, retractors, buckles, etc. must be identified by part number, then purchased from Acura.
  3. Would need proper torque specs for all those safety related fasteners.
  4. Wonder if the rear belts have pre-tensioners that fire (to tighten) during an accident?
  5. Are there Body Control Module coding differences to check for a center occupant and if so insure their belt is fastened?
  6. Is the wire harness for the center occupant sensor electrical signals in the ITS?
  7. Is there an additional air bag(s) for the rear center passenger?
  8. If there is an air bag, are there BCM coding differences to check for a center occupant, then fire the center air bag in certain accident situations?
Probably more stuff - this was just off the top of my head.
 

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That's certainly a very real and viable concern!
And it would take a quite detailed comparison of the A-Spec vs ITS to identify all the possible differences and part numbers.
  1. Obviously one would need a new rear bench seat, back rest, and head rest.
  2. Must verify all belt attachment anchor points are still in the ITS body - I would think so, but all the individual OEM hardware bolts, belt shackles, belts, retractors, buckles, etc. must be identified by part number, then purchased from Acura.
  3. Would need proper torque specs for all those safety related fasteners.
  4. Wonder if the rear belts have pre-tensioners that fire (to tighten) during an accident?
  5. Are there Body Control Module coding differences to check for a center occupant and if so insure their belt is fastened?
  6. Is the wire harness for the center occupant sensor electrical signals in the ITS?
  7. Is there an additional air bag(s) for the rear center passenger?
  8. If there is an air bag, are there BCM coding differences to check for a center occupant, then fire the center air bag in certain accident situations?
Probably more stuff - this was just off the top of my head.
Agreed, you could certainly "do it the right way" and technically make it identical and safe.

However, none of that will change the official fmvss standard or the door jamb sticker. You could pay for independent testing and have a separate sticker technically printed, but you'd have to buy a few cars, have them crash tested, and so on...

It's an independent choice people make, and I've seen people do other more questionable things to their cars that would compromise safety far more. To me, the risk here isn't "can you make it safe" so much as "if you get into an accident and your passenger ends up breaking their back and needs expensive surgeries, will they sue you beyond what insurance will cover and will insurance even cover ANYTHING given you ignored the label?" To me, personally, that risk is way too great and I would never put myself in that position since I transport my children around.

I don't care what people do. We all have independence and our own brains (well not everyone always has a brain 😂) so it's a personal decision. I'm just here to point out the seriousness of legal ramifications surrounding safety. 😊

Acura Integra G80 M3 to Type S what do you think? 20250927_143244
 

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Rev hang is the specific electronic throttle body action of leaving the throttle open so that unburned fuel in the manifold can burn during the next cycle. You know you have a Rev hang specific tune or problem if it occurs in neutral when you rev the engine. If the rpm stays for a second and then falls, that's rev hang. The throttle was left open and the rpm hung around before the throttle closed. Simple, direct, observable, repeatable.
Confusion around this topic is right! When I perform this exercise the revs drop immediately, as one would expect, at least anyone who has been driving manual transmissions for 60 years. And there is no evidence of rev hang when upshifting. I have no idea why these cars are not consistent in this regard, and my guess is that the dealership folks would be no help. My mechanic was with Honda for 20 years before starting his own business, so I'll ask his opinion. If I get a meaningful answer, I'll post it.
 

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I have had many higher end cars. RS3, RS5, M5, M850i. Never had an M3 but have had comparable models.
What you said is pretty accurate. My last car (M850i) was a heavy brute GT car for sure. The Type S is a nimble dart compared to that.
Is the Type S faster? No. I bought it because it is engaging to drive. A manual makes you think, makes you work for it. An automatic these days basically drives itself.

Will you miss the M3? I am sure you would miss aspects about it but the Type S is actually really fun to drive.

I have thought about doing an M3 for my next vehicle but I swap cars every 10 months or so. Too often in my opinion. The Type S has the tenacity to stick around for more than 10 months.
My sentiments exactly. My most recent cars were an M550, two M5s, an M4cs and an M2cs, oh and a 335is.

I traded in the M550 and M4cs for the ITS. I wanted to go back to a car that's fun at any speed, and doesn't weigh so much that it numbs the experience.

That was my math.
 

elh0102

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Confusion around this topic is right! When I perform this exercise the revs drop immediately, as one would expect, at least anyone who has been driving manual transmissions for 60 years. And there is no evidence of rev hang when upshifting. I have no idea why these cars are not consistent in this regard, and my guess is that the dealership folks would be no help. My mechanic was with Honda for 20 years before starting his own business, so I'll ask his opinion. If I get a meaningful answer, I'll post it.
I contacted my mechanic about the rev hang issue, but unfortunately, he was no help. He thinks that it might be related to the rev matching feature. I don't believe that is the case. If it were, there would not be cars like mine, in which the rev matching works fine on downshifts, but there is no rev hang issue on upshifts. So, the mystery remains.
 

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I owned a G80 M3 for about a year. Feel free to reach out to me if you have specific questions about comparisons.
 

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This reminds me, I STRONGLY recommend heading to South Carolina and getting some seat time at the BMW Performance Center. I had the immense pleasure of doing my local BMWCCA's "M Performance Day" where I spent a full day out there behind the wheel of the latest M cars. This was in 2016 mind you, but OMFG what an experience.

I grew up driving RWD cars (I veered Nissan during my "import craze" in the late 90s/early 00s...), but still, until you're intentionally rotating an M3 sideways around a figure 8, you're not living. If you can walk away from that event still feeling like RWD is not for you, then you'll definitely know your answer- but at least you'll have a shitload of fun (and learn a few things about driving at the limit) while you're at it.

Yes it's expensive but so is this hobby in general. Anyone who likes driving will find it WELL worth the expense.

https://bmwperformancecenter.com/
The BMW performance center gets noting but amazing reviews. People come out of there with changed DNA!

I think the learning is part my issue. Right now i don’t have the time to dedicate to learning how to drive the car. between work and family no chance im going to SC, if i was local it would be a not be a question.

I’m about 60/40 that I’m going to make the change I’m not there yet but getting there. The M3 is an amazing car. We have established that the M3 needs to be on a track to be truly run at its peak and for a daily driver in traffic it’s great but for me it’s not even that car. I have 3 kids and 95% of the time we are using our Wagoneer. I have never had all 3 kids in the M3 at one time and for any around town trips with the family i never use the car. M3s are also depreciating quickly, i think i can get out of it at a great price right now because it only has 6k miles and basically all the options.

Maybe in a few years i can go back to an M car. But for my life i think the ITR is a better fit for right now.

This thread has helped me understand what I’m getting into with a type s and what to expect. In a lot of ways it lowered my expectation regarding build quality, paint etc… but did reinforce my expectation about driving experience. Having a 4 door modern manual with some pep and that is fun to drive and probably 1/2 the cost to own seems like the right path for me.
This and this. I've been twice and will go again at the end of October with a friend. The BMW Performance Center is a must-attend if you're an automotive enthusiast. It's an incredible opportunity to get behind the wheel of late model M cars on track in a safe and controlled environment. The driving experiences are exceptional, facilities are good, and it's semi accessible with two campuses (Thermal, CA, and Spartanburg, SC), and the price point isn't unreasonably high.

From a marketing and customer acquisition perspective, the model clearly works as intended. At the conclusion of a driving experience, most walk away with a newfound (or deepened) appreciation for the M cars and what they're capable of. I was joking with my buddy that once we return, he will be instantly converted to a G80 fanboy. He laughed and said that's highly unlikely, but I'm not so sure.:drive:
 

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I contacted my mechanic about the rev hang issue, but unfortunately, he was no help. He thinks that it might be related to the rev matching feature. I don't believe that is the case. If it were, there would not be cars like mine, in which the rev matching works fine on downshifts, but there is no rev hang issue on upshifts. So, the mystery remains.
Nuts - I was looking forward to your reply, with hope of learning more via your ex-Honda mechanic. In my case (and as reported by others), the rev-hang / over-rev issue on up-shifts is not NOT affected by the car's setting for "rev-match" on downshifts.

If you think of it next time you see him - I wonder if he still has any contacts with Honda's high level service techs that support the Dealer mechanics? The problem must have been internally discussed & analyzed, even if there is no solution (perhaps due to intentional emission control techniques).
 

elh0102

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Nuts - I was looking forward to your reply, with hope of learning more via your ex-Honda mechanic. In my case (and as reported by others), the rev-hang / over-rev issue on up-shifts is not NOT affected by the car's setting for "rev-match" on downshifts.

If you think of it next time you see him - I wonder if he still has any contacts with Honda's high level service techs that support the Dealer mechanics? The problem must have been internally discussed & analyzed, even if there is no solution (perhaps due to intentional emission control techniques).
You're right, from all reports, the rev match feature is not related to the issue of rev overhang. Fortunately, mine doesn't do it with or without rev matching engaged. And this continues to puzzle me. Why would the tuning not be the same in all cars? I can imagine a scenario in which very different gasoline formulations could change the volume of unburned post combustion particles, and perhaps activating a rev overhang feature. But I can't imagine such a widespread difference affecting so many people. My concern is that at some point the dealer might need to perform an "update" that brings this on in my car.
 
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tmperez

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Howdy everyone, I wanted to update this thread.

I ended up making the switch from the M3 to the ITS. Im pretty happy with the change, I do miss the torque of the M3 but overall I think the ITS is a better car for me right now. I like having more analog controls, the power is reasonable and manageable (although I have kept it below 4K for now) and the car is way easier to get in and out of. The M3s carbon buckets were a nightmare. And Ill be honest, IMO the ITR is a better looking car.

I ended up putting a few dealer options on the car: CF wing, Alcantera wheel, bronze wheels, blacked out emblems, and CF mirror covers. I don't think the mirror covers are all that good-looking, but I'll keep them on for now.

Since I need something to tinker with Im going to install the illuminated door sills & home link mirror, those are two things that look pretty straightforward. The car coming without a home link is absolutely preposterous, I don't know how Acura can be a luxury brand and not put a built-in garage door opener. It's the one frustrating thing about this car that really gets under my skin.

Thanks for all the feedback in this thread and to few folks I talked to via DM.

I added a phot of my DC2 GSR just because

Acura Integra G80 M3 to Type S what do you think? IMG_6464

Acura Integra G80 M3 to Type S what do you think? IMG_7970
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