Track day question - stock pads?

[Blue Teggy]

I know that performance pads are the way to go and would do that for sure but I have a track day opportunity in 6 days and probably can't get pads delivered and installed before the event. (yes, I can do it myself but will be out of town for a few days next week)

My question is whether stock pads will hold up to any track use at all. If the brakes are going to go away in 2 laps then I won't bother trying to do the track day.

Thanks in advance.

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[Victorofhavoc]

Is this your first track event? If so, I'll put on my lead instructor hat and say, "your car needs nothing. Work on learning the line."

The stock pads are a high quality brembo compound capable of fairly high heat tolerance. They are adequate for stock tires and will hold up just fine for a good number of sessions.

When the driver gets a lot faster and starts moving to a higher heat tire, the pads start to become limiting. If this is your first event, you'll be more than fine. It will take you at least 6 weekends before you're capable of pushing the stock pads to melting range.

What I WOULD do is flush the factory fluid out and use a higher quality fluid that can last a while. The acura stuff is garbage and mine came heavily contaminated from factory. Motul 600 is the most popular for dual duty cars and race cars since it can last a couple years with minor bleeding. Castrol srf level is a step up in dry performance but more sensitive to wet/time and frankly overkill for most use cases.

The problem with these cars is the rear. Once you get really fast (usually 12+ weekends for most drivers), the traction control kills rear pads fast... Like 4 to 6 sessions fast. First 3-4 weekends out I don't recommend turning off traction control, but after that it's fairly necessary to keep heat managed in the rear.

 

[Blue Teggy]

Is this your first track event? If so, I'll put on my lead instructor hat and say, "your car needs nothing. Work on learning the line."

The stock pads are a high quality brembo compound capable of fairly high heat tolerance. They are adequate for stock tires and will hold up just fine for a good number of sessions.

When the driver gets a lot faster and starts moving to a higher heat tire, the pads start to become limiting. If this is your first event, you'll be more than fine. It will take you at least 6 weekends before you're capable of pushing the stock pads to melting range.

I have over 35 years of track experience in vintage racing, Formula Ford for the last 15 years. I am quite capable of pushing the car hard and finding it's limits. That said, I'm not looking for the ultimate lap time and will be on stock tires.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I have over 35 years of track experience in vintage racing, Formula Ford for the last 15 years. I am quite capable of pushing the car hard and finding it's limits. That said, I'm not looking for the ultimate lap time and will be on stock tires.

If that's the case, then pedal dance all the way since you'll be picking up a wheel at any moderate to lower speed corner entry and that's what ends up eating the pads as vcs fights to brake the inside rear wheel.

I took the car on track, bone stock, and I could push it for 15 mins before the pads were a problem on stock tires. The factory brake fluid is the same stuff they put into all hondas. It's fine for commuting, but junk with any heat.

One note, with your more advanced experienced you'll probably get the pads hot enough to throw a light in the dash that says "brake". That is not a concern. There's some method they're using to estimate brake temps and that warning goes off with a code underneath that says "brake pads hot". It effects nothing and restarting the car makes it clear.

 

[optronix]

Yeah with track experience if you actively hold back on long straights and push just short of 10/10ths you should be totally fine on the OEM Michelins. The OEM brakes are as good as it gets this side of Porsche.

 

[Blue Teggy]

Thank you for the responses. If I get to go and put Teggy on track, I'll be super conscious of my brake use and challenge myself to lap as fast as I can with as little brake use as possible. It's actually a great exercise for managing corner entry speed and being smooth as opposed to hammering the brakes at the last moment before throwing it into the corner.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Thank you for the responses. If I get to go and put Teggy on track, I'll be super conscious of my brake use and challenge myself to lap as fast as I can with as little brake use as possible. It's actually a great exercise for managing corner entry speed and being smooth as opposed to hammering the brakes at the last moment before throwing it into the corner.

Very true! Your brakes are your setup for the corner, not the focus of it. That's where I see a lot of intermediate drivers get stuck!

There's a great Ross Bentley article where he discusses how max brake pressure and shortening brake zones isn't always fastest .

What track are you taking it out to?

 

[ModJPB]

Like Victorofhavoc mentioned, change the brake fluid ASAP. You'll want a quality fluid to prevent the pedal from going to the floor if the brakes overheat. You'll also want to have it changed out early in case air gets in the line and to let the new fluid intermingle.

If you'll be on a track separate or by yourself, then old pads are fine. If you'll be alongside other cars then try to get good pads on there. FYI you might ruin whatever pads on track day so you'll want to have a backup set for afterwards.

 

[Blue Teggy]

Very true! Your brakes are your setup for the corner, not the focus of it. That's where I see a lot of intermediate drivers get stuck!

There's a great Ross Bentley article where he discusses how max brake pressure and shortening brake zones isn't always fastest .

What track are you taking it out to?

The track is NCCAR. Still up in the air whether I will be going or not. If I do go, I will report back about the experience.

I am a big Ross Bentley fan. Also long time good friends with another driver coach you might have heard of - Peter Krause.

 

[DK 24LC ITS]

I don't have nearly as much experience as you, probably 7-10 track days, but I also had all seasons and very crowded sessions on a medium to small track. That said stock pads and fluid were just fine as long as you're focusing on momentum and not max braking. I already changed my pads and will flush for the next track day because it will be Watkins Glen.

My rears took down 3mm after 3x 20 minute sessions. No spongy pedal, but we had lots of time between sessions and lower ambient temps too. Given your experience the pedal dance will save those rears.

All that to say I'm sure you'll be fine for now.

 

[UWU-mancer]

For the sake of learning I think stock pads are fine

to me they feel about as good as the ebc yellow stuff pads (the newest formulation). I wouldn’t worry about brakes till you get better and start bumping up against the “holy shit my pedal is super soft” and “OMG it doesn’t wanna stop”

just my opinion.

 

[Blue Teggy]

I'm always trying to learn but with 35+ years of track experience, I am very capable of roasting the brakes in short order. I intend to approach it as an exercise in how to get the best lap I can with as little stress on the brakes as possible.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

If brake fade is the limit, that's a good place to be. Out of all the things that will overheat, brake fade is the most manageable. They overheat and fall off predictably for most compounds, and the brembo are no different. You just back off next corner and take the slightly longer brake zone. With your experience it should be super easy to spot and control. For new to intermediate-advanced drivers it feels like they're giving something up, but heat management is one of the driver's primary jobs. Mass management the other.

Fluid fade is what gets people into panic mode
Greased up tire gets people spinning
Overheated drivetrain is just frustration

(I know you know this - just stating for anyone else more novice than you)

 

[DK 24LC ITS]

Just hit Watkins Glen yesterday with RBF600 and CSG CP pads. The pads were good, I ran with VSC off and still cooked the fluid in 5 laps though. It's possible the dealership didn't get the last little bit of stock fluid out. Missed my second session while the little race shop flushed me with 660 and the afternoon session was amazing. No fade, no issues at all, pad life was good, but admittedly I only got about 15-20 laps all day.

I packed it in early just cuz the heat was getting to me but the car wasn't breaking a sweat.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Just hit Watkins Glen yesterday with RBF600 and CSG CP pads. The pads were good, I ran with VSC off and still cooked the fluid in 5 laps though. It's possible the dealership didn't get the last little bit of stock fluid out. Missed my second session while the little race shop flushed me with 660 and the afternoon session was amazing. No fade, no issues at all, pad life was good, but admittedly I only got about 15-20 laps all day.

I packed it in early just cuz the heat was getting to me but the car wasn't breaking a sweat.

Are you using titanium shims? They help a ton with pad to caliper heat transfer.

Also, you must bleed the clutch when bleeding the brakes. If the dealer didn't do that then you'd definitely see problems.

I don't have any boiling issues with 600 coming down from 130mph+ routinely. 660 is great fluid, just a lot more water sensitive, so make sure you're bleeding it before every event and at least 1-2 times per year if running it on the street.

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