Throttle pedal lag

[itsredits]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if a tune (Hondata/cobb/etc) will fix the throttle pedal lag on the ITS?

It’s the half second lag between when you press the gas pedal and the engine responds.

The stock ITS is not bad, but would like to tune this out, AND make the throttle response more linear. Currently have to use pedal commander to do this.

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[UWU-mancer]

Yes. On my old fk8 definitely made things more one to one. It was incredibly touchy in first like an older manual. Loved it.

but it still wasn’t perfect. Maybe on the newer fl5 and de5 tuners have perfected it some how?

 

[itsredits]

Yes. On my old fk8 definitely made things more one to one. It was incredibly touchy in first like an older manual. Loved it.

but it still wasn’t perfect. Maybe on the newer fl5 and de5 tuners have perfected it some how?

What tuner did you use for your fk8?

 

[UWU-mancer]

What tuner did you use for your fk8?

Hondata. Went to PFI for a custom tune, I was too lazy to do it myself tbh

edit; this was before Covid. So way before the epa slapped PFI with the fines. Forcing PFI to rat out on every single customer that ever bought a DP from them btw

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Like @UWU-mancer said, tuning can make it more sensitive up front. Adjustable per drive mode as well.

There's an element of turbo lag you will never get rid of though. It's a traditional single scroll, medium-sized turbo and with that comes throttle response trade-off. You'll never get that NA response to the twitch of a toe.

 

[SilverRocket]

Stupid question, are you in S+ mode? I remember the second or third drive after getting my car, I drove it after a drive in S+ and it felt horribly laggy. Turns out Comfort mode both dulls and deepens the throttle position before it starts to go.

Want to do a test. On an on-ramp push the peddle 1/3 of the way down in comfort mode and hold it there. Then switch to Individual mode with S+ engine and the car will start to pull harder without changing the throttle pedal position.

This effect combine with what Victor explained with the turbo, I believe this is what I'd happening.

 

[UWU-mancer]

Stupid question, are you in S+ mode? I remember the second or third drive after getting my car, I drove it after a drive in S+ and it felt horribly laggy. Turns out Comfort mode both dulls and deepens the throttle position before it starts to go.

Want to do a test. On an on-ramp push the peddle 1/3 of the way down in comfort mode and hold it there. Then switch to Individual mode with S+ engine and the car will start to pull harder without changing the throttle pedal position.

This effect combine with what Victor explained with the turbo, I believe this is what I'd happening.

Oh yeah. The throttle mapping changes in sport plus (also in individual if it’s set up for that sport plus engine option)

feels like an extra 5-10% throttle gets added

 

[MNTeggy]

In my experience, the addition of an aftermarket rear motor mount (PRL) made a big difference in throttle response. I don’t notice any lag, really.

 

[slowcountry]

Is it the tune itself, or do spark plugs with shorter gaps play into it as well? Might be imagined, but would nearly swear it's an instantaneous difference tuned with .026 vs tuned with .032.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Is it the tune itself, or do spark plugs with shorter gaps play into it as well? Might be imagined, but would nearly swear it's an instantaneous difference tuned with .026 vs tuned with .032.

Shorter spark gap just means less energy is needed to generate the arc. For electricity to gross a gap it takes roughly 75000 to 100000 volts per inch at atmospheric pressure (14.2psi). The gaps in spark plugs are much smaller than an inch. You make the gap closer if you're increasing boost a ton since running more boost means more resistance to the spark to cross that gap (above atmospheric pressure).

The closer gap also means you can advance timing further (waiting longer) to generate a bit more compression of the air and fuel mixture.

It's all tune based. The throttle mapping is a table that has throttle pedal position on one axis and requested torque on another. The more sensitive throttle mapping is making it so that at a lower throttle percent angle you're requesting more torque. If the throttle mapping was directly 1:1 mapped, everyone would hate this car.

The pedal box type mods that alter the sensitivity without tune are doing it by intercepting the throttle position from your pedal and sensing a differently mapped percentage to the ecu. For example (and these are fudged numbers), if your foot requests 30% and the stock tune claims that's 50% torque request the pedal box tricks the ecu and says you're actually requesting 40% position and the ecu delivers 60% torque.

When your tuner tunes the throttle mapping table, they're essentially doing the same thing, but at the ecu and much more controlled.

 

[UWU-mancer]

There’s also a lot to be said about running a colder plug for the sake of consistent acceleration

some engines are very sensitive to plug gap. The fa20 va WRX for example, comes to mind. So does a tuned ap2 on boost

id concentrate on running one step colder plugs and nailing that gap vs playing with the gap on the oem heat range type plugs. At least you’ll gain more from a colder plug imo

unless you’re at my elevation? At my elevation you’ll probably need to turbo swap to really challenge the stock plug’s heat range

 

[Victorofhavoc]

There’s also a lot to be said about running a colder plug for the sake of consistent acceleration

some engines are very sensitive to plug gap. The fa20 va WRX for example, comes to mind. So does a tuned ap2 on boost

id concentrate on running one step colder plugs and nailing that gap vs playing with the gap on the oem heat range type plugs. At least you’ll gain more from a colder plug imo

unless you’re at my elevation? At my elevation you’ll probably need to turbo swap to really challenge the stock plug’s heat range

That logic holds true for a non boosted car going boosted because of significantly higher cylinder temps where the higher heat range plugs (colder plugs) extract marginally more heat through the sheathing of the plug.

On an already boosted car you're not going to change cylinder temps so dramatically, at least not without going to a much larger turbo and muuuuuch more power.

The old "wisdom" from the 90s was for every additional 100hp you run a one step colder. It's not so true now that knock sensors, temp sensors, direct injection, and other things are capable of real time feedback for real time adjustment.

Stock plugs stock gap, unless your tuner is telling you otherwise. If your tuner is telling you otherwise ask why. There are sometimes good reasons, but there are also tradeoffs. The vw community was often running exotic plugs at 40$ a pop and even running plugs from other vag platforms. I foolishly ran the rs7 plugs and blew a grounding strap off. I also ran those magical expensive plugs eqt was pushing and had nothing but issues and misfires on track. Drove fine on the street, but 2 laps in on track it would disable a cylinder. Stock plugs, stock gap and zero issues.

 

[UWU-mancer]

That logic holds true for a non boosted car going boosted because of significantly higher cylinder temps where the higher heat range plugs (colder plugs) extract marginally more heat through the sheathing of the plug.

On an already boosted car you're not going to change cylinder temps so dramatically, at least not without going to a much larger turbo and muuuuuch more power.

The old "wisdom" from the 90s was for every additional 100hp you run a one step colder. It's not so true now that knock sensors, temp sensors, direct injection, and other things are capable of real time feedback for real time adjustment.

Stock plugs stock gap, unless your tuner is telling you otherwise. If your tuner is telling you otherwise ask why. There are sometimes good reasons, but there are also tradeoffs. The vw community was often running exotic plugs at 40$ a pop and even running plugs from other vag platforms. I foolishly ran the rs7 plugs and blew a grounding strap off. I also ran those magical expensive plugs eqt was pushing and had nothing but issues and misfires on track. Drove fine on the street, but 2 laps in on track it would disable a cylinder. Stock plugs, stock gap and zero issues.

True but if you abuse the car frequently there’s something to be gained at least. Just moving heat into the head quicker. Even if just a little. Can make for a more consistent experience I’ve found

 

[Victorofhavoc]

True but if you abuse the car frequently there’s something to be gained at least. Just moving heat into the head quicker. Even if just a little. Can make for a more consistent experience I’ve found

True. If you're running at near constant wot I agree.

The tradeoff is pulling heat out when the cylinder is already cold. Leads to a dirtier combustion, faster fouling of the plug, and eventually rough idle and misfire. That's where you find folks replacing plugs every 5-10k miles "to smooth out idle" or cleaning and gapping all the time.

For the vast majority of people and situations, they're not running the car at wot immediately after start and pounding on it like a legit racecar. Even 45mins of track time (which is about all this car can manage before needing to stop for refuel), is not rough enough at stock turbo power levels.

 

[UWU-mancer]

True. If you're running at near constant wot I agree.

The tradeoff is pulling heat out when the cylinder is already cold. Leads to a dirtier combustion, faster fouling of the plug, and eventually rough idle and misfire. That's where you find folks replacing plugs every 5-10k miles "to smooth out idle" or cleaning and gapping all the time.

For the vast majority of people and situations, they're not running the car at wot immediately after start and pounding on it like a legit racecar. Even 45mins of track time (which is about all this car can manage before needing to stop for refuel), is not rough enough at stock turbo power levels.

Had a twincharged ion redline. Can confirm. It ate spark plugs like a mf

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