Test drove a BMW M240i today

[elh0102]

I've been thinking of trading or selling the ITS and getting another BMW or Porsche, which have been my primary cars for a long time. Today I drove a new M240i, and I was disappointed. It had plenty of power, and handled well, but the overall driving experience was very detached, it just did not provide a minimum level of driver involvement. I never thought I would feel that way in comparing a front driver to a BMW sports sedan, but there it is. Honda has done a great job in developing this drivetrain. To me, it feels almost on a level with the Porsche Cayman, which is saying a lot. Obviously, front drive, rear drive, and mid engine cars all have their specific handling dynamics. But is one clearly superior? I'm no longer sure.

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[MNTeggy]

I've been thinking of trading or selling the ITS and getting another BMW or Porsche, which have been my primary cars for a long time. Today I drove a new M240i, and I was disappointed. It had plenty of power, and handled well, but the overall driving experience was very detached, it just did not provide a minimum level of driver involvement. I never thought I would feel that way in comparing a front driver to a BMW sports sedan, but there it is. Honda has done a great job in developing this drivetrain. To me, it feels almost on a level with the Porsche Cayman, which is saying a lot. Obviously, front drive, rear drive, and mid engine cars all have their specific handling dynamics. But is one clearly superior? I'm no longer sure.

That’s good info; thanks for sharing! I’ve been thinking of an RS3 or M3 competition for my next car. I haven’t driven either one yet. There are things I don’t like about the ITS, but more things I do like. Sometimes I think it should be quicker and louder, mainly louder. Probably going to get a Borla exhaust so that should take care of the sound. The ITS doesn’t have many luxury features, but it’s so fun to drive!

 

[elh0102]

It's a personal preference. You just need to drive them and decide. The cars I had when I was active in the club track stuff would blow the ITS off the road. But as a daily driver and entertaining road car, I think the ITS is hard to beat.

 

[UWU-mancer]

Expected experience for sure

some cars just ruin you man. The m240 is crazy especially in a straight line but it doesn’t entertain as much imo

no offense to anyone

 

[optronix]

It's strange. I was the same way for a long time... I insisted to myself that there's just no way I'd ever consider a front-wheel drive a "real" sports car. But I started seeing and hearing impressions from people I deeply respected saying that the FK8 was a great driver's car but I could never take it seriously because of how it looked... and then the FL5 came out and I was immediately compelled towards it. Part of it was I was tired of spending so much on cars and was staring another six-figure tuition for my second kid in the face. But also I was curious to see if my personal standards weren't being biased.

As it turns out, they absolutely were. I've gotten shit on these boards for "slumming it up with the Honda crowd" because I reference my past cars occasionally on here, but it's important context for anyone who owns or is considering a Type S. If someone can live through an ownership experience for over 2 years after coming from a string of BMW M, Audi RS, mid- and rear-engine Porsches and still be happy with this car, it's genuinely something special.

There's not really anything I don't like about the car anymore. I've even gotten completely over the rattles (which are pervasive, especially after the exhaust). The car is as close to perfect as I can get for my use case, at any price- point blank period.

I occasionally ask myself "what's next", or if there are any other cars I should consider. I come up blank every single time. (There are cars I'd buy but not as a replacement; e.g., Emira/Boxster/Miata, or a Tacoma). This one gives me all the thrills I want from a driving experience perspective, and is comfortable enough where I don't mind taking it on trips or even during abysmal DC beltway traffic.

This car feels like an extension of my own body. It matches any similar sense I've gotten from any of my past cars, but this one is more fun to drive on the road than a (modern- F-chassis and newer) M car and I'm not afraid to put miles on it like I was with my P cars.

As for front-wheel drive. As most of us who've owned BMWs, Porsches, Mustangs, S-chassis/Z cars etc. in the past can attest, the drive wheels don't actually make the car. Unless you're dead set on routinely powersliding on a private course like Jeremy Clarkson or high-production value YouTubers, or drifting competitively, there's no requirement for a car to be rear-drive anymore. I feel like Subaru/Audi/Mitsubishi changed that perception to include all-wheel drive in the 90s (80s for Audi), I guess it just took this long for Honda to finally catch up from a perception perspective.

That being said, it's not like there wasn't evidence available. The DC2 ITR comes to mind; I'm still looking for anyone who can walk away from driving that car and not be impressed. But it did kind of stand alone in that echelon of "supreme driving cars"; I can't really think of any other FWD cars on that level and that's why some of them are trading for north of six figures on the open market...

 

[elh0102]

It's strange. I was the same way for a long time... I insisted to myself that there's just no way I'd ever consider a front-wheel drive a "real" sports car. But I started seeing and hearing impressions from people I deeply respected saying that the FK8 was a great driver's car but I could never take it seriously because of how it looked... and then the FL5 came out and I was immediately compelled towards it. Part of it was I was tired of spending so much on cars and was staring another six-figure tuition for my second kid in the face. But also I was curious to see if my personal standards weren't being biased.

As it turns out, they absolutely were. I've gotten shit on these boards for "slumming it up with the Honda crowd" because I reference my past cars occasionally on here, but it's important context for anyone who owns or is considering a Type S. If someone can live through an ownership experience for over 2 years after coming from a string of BMW M, Audi RS, mid- and rear-engine Porsches and still be happy with this car, it's genuinely something special.

There's not really anything I don't like about the car anymore. I've even gotten completely over the rattles (which are pervasive, especially after the exhaust). The car is as close to perfect as I can get for my use case, at any price- point blank period.

I occasionally ask myself "what's next", or if there are any other cars I should consider. I come up blank every single time. (There are cars I'd buy but not as a replacement; e.g., Emira/Boxster/Miata, or a Tacoma). This one gives me all the thrills I want from a driving experience perspective, and is comfortable enough where I don't mind taking it on trips or even during abysmal DC beltway traffic.

This car feels like an extension of my own body. It matches any similar sense I've gotten from any of my past cars, but this one is more fun to drive on the road than a (modern- F-chassis and newer) M car and I'm not afraid to put miles on it like I was with my P cars.

As for front-wheel drive. As most of us who've owned BMWs, Porsches, Mustangs, S-chassis/Z cars etc. in the past can attest, the drive wheels don't actually make the car. Unless you're dead set on routinely powersliding on a private course like Jeremy Clarkson or high-production value YouTubers, or drifting competitively, there's no requirement for a car to be rear-drive anymore. I feel like Subaru/Audi/Mitsubishi changed that perception to include all-wheel drive in the 90s (80s for Audi), I guess it just took this long for Honda to finally catch up from a perception perspective.

That being said, it's not like there wasn't evidence available. The DC2 ITR comes to mind; I'm still looking for anyone who can walk away from driving that car and not be impressed. But it did kind of stand alone in that echelon of "supreme driving cars"; I can't really think of any other FWD cars on that level and that's why some of them are trading for north of six figures on the open market...

I agree with all this. My former track cars included a couple of M3s, Corvette C6 ZO6, and a 996 series Porsche GT3. They were all very pleasing in different. ways, which I will now say about the ITS as well. My only remaining bias, I think anyone who wants to advance their high performance driving skills needs to spend some time in a high HP rear drive car. Driving such a car (without TC) teaches a ton about managing traction with fine throttle control. Do you have to learn that? Well, probably not, but I think it's part of becoming a better driver and developing a feel for it.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I can't really think of any other FWD cars on that level and that's why some of them are trading for north of six figures on the open market...

Counterpoint... Mini before bmw bought them and of course the grandfather of all fwd hot hatches, the gti. The gli stands out at times as well. I had a gli park next to me at the grocery recently and I couldn't stop looking at it... It's not as aggressive looking as the its, but it looks more high end up close. They drive like a gti basically. If vw didn't kill the manual and go haptic buttons/dash I would have bought another gti. They also have never given us the clubsport s, which blows the its out of the water in many ways. Clubsport s is the only one with a similar alignment from factory to the its, so it's really the only fair comparison in the entire "small hot hatch/sedan" category.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I agree with all this. My former track cars included a couple of M3s, Corvette C6 ZO6, and a 996 series Porsche GT3. They were all very pleasing in different. ways, which I will now say about the ITS as well. My only remaining bias, I think anyone who wants to advance their high performance driving skills needs to spend some time in a high HP rear drive car. Driving such a car (without TC) teaches a ton about managing traction with fine throttle control. Do you have to learn that? Well, probably not, but I think it's part of becoming a better driver and developing a feel for it.

I agree.

I will also say that every driver that has only driven high hp rwd cars needs to drive a hot hatch on track. The truth is every car is a momentum car, but hot hatches aren't forgiving with brake and power if you get things wrong, so they teach good technique safely. Most track drivers I've run into in high hp rwd cars aren't even within 20% of the car's full limits, even when the rear end "seems to be at the limit" because it's sliding they still could have used more brake/momentum for more rotation and had more grip coming out.

Here's a video of me in a gti chasing a mustang gt. The guy had more experience than me and way more power/brake/tire/suspension. This session convinced him to go buy a brz ... He still couldn't get over the fail wheel drive . Arguably the 86 is the best sports car out there, regardless of price point.

 

[Chilipepper]

Counterpoint... Mini before bmw bought them and of course the grandfather of all fwd hot hatches, the gti. The gli stands out at times as well. I had a gli park next to me at the grocery recently and I couldn't stop looking at it... It's not as aggressive looking as the its, but it looks more high end up close. They drive like a gti basically. If vw didn't kill the manual and go haptic buttons/dash I would have bought another gti. They also have never given us the clubsport s, which blows the its out of the water in many ways. Clubsport s is the only one with a similar alignment from factory to the its, so it's really the only fair comparison in the entire "small hot hatch/sedan" category.

Same. I loved my 2013 base Gti and would have gotten another if they still offered a manual.

 

[elh0102]

I had a GTI with the LSD and MT. It was a great car, but I like the ITS better. It grieves me to say that, as I generally much prefer German cars over Asian. I guess another example of Honda getting it right on this one, at least to my individual taste.

 

[optronix]

I agree with all this. My former track cars included a couple of M3s, Corvette C6 ZO6, and a 996 series Porsche GT3. They were all very pleasing in different. ways, which I will now say about the ITS as well. My only remaining bias, I think anyone who wants to advance their high performance driving skills needs to spend some time in a high HP rear drive car. Driving such a car (without TC) teaches a ton about managing traction with fine throttle control. Do you have to learn that? Well, probably not, but I think it's part of becoming a better driver and developing a feel for it.

My experience at the BMW Performance Center in South Carolina was sublime. The skidpad was great of course, but my favorite part was the "wet figure 8". I admit I did devolve from trying to be fast into just seeing how long I could keep going sideways, but it was an ABSOLUTE BLAST!!!!!!!

You obviously can't do that in an ITS... but there are different rewards I get from this car. Power-off oversteer is its own subtle gem of a driving technique that I've grown to love.

As for the GTI- it's just never really appealed to me, for whatever reason. Probably mostly aesthetic if I'm being honest- I can appreciate them as great enthusiast cars, just never wanted to own one personally. So in saying that, yes- I agree that the GTI deserves its own place in the Mt Rushmore of FWD performance cars.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

You obviously can't do that in an ITS... but there are different rewards I get from this car. Power-off oversteer is its own subtle gem of a driving technique that I've grown to love.

Yesssss

It applies to all cars, but you can't cover up poor braking technique with power in a fwd car.

Once you feel it, you get it! The go pedal makes you go, but the slow pedal makes you fast . It's all about brake release characteristics and technique to make that "shark fin" on a speed chart.

 

[2WheelsRBetter]

To me, it feels almost on a level with the Porsche Cayman, which is saying a lot.

I subscribe to the British magazine EVO. They've rated the current and prior CTRs 5-star cars (out of 5). In 2024 they tested the ITS and gave it 5 stars too, citing of course, the differences to the CTR we're all familiar with. One of my favorite observations, paraphrasing from their last CTR review was, "If Porsche made a hot hatch, this would be it."

 

[UWU-mancer]

I subscribe to the British magazine EVO. They've rated the current and prior CTRs 5-star cars (out of 5). In 2024 they tested the ITS and gave it 5 stars too, citing of course, the differences to the CTR we're all familiar with. One of my favorite observations, paraphrasing from their last CTR review was, "If Porsche made a hot hatch, this would be it."

Damn. Pretty high praise. I sub to evo too via apple’s news rss thingy. Solid mag. Too many damn exotics sometimes imo but solid mag

 

[elh0102]

Yesssss

It applies to all cars, but you can't cover up poor braking technique with power in a fwd car.

Once you feel it, you get it! The go pedal makes you go, but the slow pedal makes you fast . It's all about brake release characteristics and technique to make that "shark fin" on a speed chart.

Okay, I have to claim some ignorance here, as all my previous track experience was in various RWD cars. But it sounds like you are referring to the technique that I knew as trail braking. You stay on the brakes past turn-in, and at some point between there and the apex, you lift off the brakes and squeeze on throttle. This helps with the rotation in cars prone to understeer. I used it to good effect in an E92 M3 with DCT. When dealing with 3 pedals, it is more challenging.

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