How to turn off pops and bangs in sport + mode?

[S2K Void Filler]

I want the instant acceleration this mode provides but also don’t want to sound like a hoodlum. How do I keep sport + but turn off bangs?

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[Frenzal]

If you have a pending code, car won't do the pops and bangs anymore.

Other than that, I think the only way is a tune.

 

[UWU-mancer]

No way to turn them off without being tuned. Sorry man

 

[Dvs1270]

Yep, must have a tune. I get the same hit with off in my individual setting with the Sport engine setting. My tune has aggressive pops & bangs so it is even worse. Sometimes I use it, but most days I'm in comfort with an aftermarket exhaust.

 

[asone]

OP's problem probably also get solved if all 3 modes have the same throttle response and no rev hang of Sport+ mode. Just Comfort = quiet, Sport = loud, Sport+ = pop & bang. All 3 have the same throttle response and no rev hang. Then, I'd be using Comfort and Sports way more than now.

 

[UWU-mancer]

Yep, must have a tune. I get the same hit with off in my individual setting with the Sport engine setting. My tune has aggressive pops & bangs so it is even worse. Sometimes I use it, but most days I'm in comfort with an aftermarket exhaust.

I always wondered. How crazy is that version of pops?

 

[Dvs1270]

Before my Apexi kinda annoying, with the exhaust several low toop, toop, toops. Only one loud pop usually then the toops.
Sometimes they're barely audible.

 

[Fred 930]

Actually, I could live with the pops & bangs if I could just somehow get rid of the rev-hang. It's intolerable in my car. A design defect as far as I'm concerned. Hard to imagine people are able to track the car with such terrible throttle response.

 

[UWU-mancer]

Actually, I could live with the pops & bangs if I could just somehow get rid of the rev-hang. It's intolerable in my car. A design defect as far as I'm concerned. Hard to imagine people are able to track the car with such terrible throttle response.

Not a fan of the rev hang myself either but when you drive aggressively at high rpm there’s little to no rev hang from second to third in high rpm’s and from 3 to 4, 4 to 5 there’s none at all

dunno about 5 to 6. I’m not too keen at going at those speeds myself unless on a proper track

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Actually, I could live with the pops & bangs if I could just somehow get rid of the rev-hang. It's intolerable in my car. A design defect as far as I'm concerned. Hard to imagine people are able to track the car with such terrible throttle response.

I haven't had issues on track. It's a turbo car and keeping the throttle slightly open between shifts makes it faster and keeps throttle response up. That's why they employ it the way they do and why you lose engine braking in turbo Porsches in sport+ settings. Throttle response is actually pretty great, even for a turbo 4 with a single scroll turbo this size...tremendously better than an sti, evo, gtr, older Porsche turbos, and the like. It's still not instant like an NA car.

Once you adapt to the car it's a no-brainer. The foot motions just become predictive.

What is really hard to adapt to on track is how quiet the car is and how useless the hud is! The hud is lazy and impossibly dim so you can't rely on it for speed (and it doesn't show rpm in any way). The exhaust from factory is so quiet you can't hear where you are in the rpm band as you're braking.

If you're new to track work, the factory car is great. I would only change three things about it... Toss on a catback, fresh quality brake/clutch fluid, and pull the strut pins then get an alignment to 0 toe and maxed out camber up front. That will take the car deep into intermediate and advanced DE groups. At expert level I expect tires and brake pads to come next. The rest of the car is totally fine.

 

[Fred 930]

I wonder if there is something especially bad about my car? It's not just a "rev-hang". RPM actually rises (overshoots) perhaps as much as 1000 rpm between rapid upshifts, forcing a significant delay before releasing the clutch (waiting for rpm to fall). Failing to do so results in a nasty drivetrain "jerk", since the engine is running about 1500 RPM faster than it should be for smooth blending into the next higher gear.

I've driven manual transmissions my entire life, presently own 4 MT vehicles, and have significant track experience. But this is my first japenese car - making me wonder if they all have that problem? Unless I delay clutch engagement by shifting very slowly, the engine is simply running too fast for the next higher gear. It is most certainly not a desirable behavior for any performance car.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I wonder if there is something especially bad about my car? It's not just a "rev-hang". RPM actually rises (overshoots) perhaps as much as 1000 rpm between rapid upshifts, forcing a significant delay before releasing the clutch (waiting for rpm to fall). Failing to do so results in a nasty drivetrain "jerk", since the engine is running about 1500 RPM faster than it should be for smooth blending into the next higher gear.

I've driven manual transmissions my entire life, presently own 4 MT vehicles, and have significant track experience. But this is my first japenese car - making me wonder if they all have that problem? Unless I delay clutch engagement by shifting very slowly, the engine is simply running too fast for the next higher gear. It is most certainly not a desirable behavior for any performance car.

There are a couple things going on. The throttle plate isn't closing immediately as you take your foot off (they coded that in) and the flywheel is fairly heavy. The combo means you see the behavior you're describing. The latter is attempting to prevent shift shock and the former is to keep the turbo spinning, especially for those mid rpm shifts. There's also the delay valve, but it's not so bad and all cars have had it to prevent people from grenading gears.

If you start releasing the throttle sooner, are you still experiencing it?

Also consider how flat foot shifting works to keep boost up between shifts. In the case of ffs the engine spins higher than the next landing rpm and you get the same feeling of "over rev".

I'm not saying it's a great feeling. I too prefer my shifts to just grab. If you're shifting near redline you won't really feel it as much. Tuning can take out some of the throttle plate delay, a lightweight flywheel will make rpm fall like a rock, and a grabbier clutch will engage faster. But will it all be faster? Probably not. It will feel like more shock, and it will "feel faster" to shift, but I doubt it will be actually faster overall.

Are your other cars also factory turbo and more recent? I've seen the behavior elsewhere, but it's definitely more pronounced on these cars. Still does fine on track since you never really shift at mid or low rpm. I do shift around 6400 to limit some heat and because of how much it falls off up there, but it still doesn't feel bad.

 

[Fred 930]

Thanks Victorofhavoc - well described reply. First, the car is presently in storage, so writing this from memory.

Yes - I suspect the car's bad behavior could be minimized by training (the driver) to lift throttle earlier than "normal". Doing so would probably result in the over-rev occurring while the clutch was still engaged in the lower gear, thus somewhat masking the condition. But my daily driver is a 2023 MK8 GTI, which drives perfectly fine and trying to alter throttle release timing between cars would likely drive me crazy. But I suppose it's possible people simply "get used to" it and gradually change their driving style.

Last time I complained, and wondered how anyone could possibly track a car that did this - the post mentioned the "over-rev" would probably not occur at redline, since the ECU would not allow RPM to exceed red-line. An interesting point that is worth exploring during any future track use, but not very practical for daily street driving.

I ordered the Type S without benefit of ever driving one (none in the area). While awaiting delivery, I did a test drive of an A-Spec with the little motor and noted the same rev-hang condition. Inquiring further, I was told the Type S was "not as bad" as the A-Spec. That has proven to be Not true, in my opinion.

Thinking back many years, I drove a Lexus IS-250 manual, and remember complaining to my friend that it held high RPM after releasing the throttle. Like a stuck "dash-pot" in ancient carburetor cars. Just figured there was something wrong with the Lexus back then, but now wonder if it's a "Japanese thing" that's been around for a long time?

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Thanks Victorofhavoc - well described reply. First, the car is presently in storage, so writing this from memory.

Yes - I suspect the car's bad behavior could be minimized by training (the driver) to lift throttle earlier than "normal". Doing so would probably result in the over-rev occurring while the clutch was still engaged in the lower gear, thus somewhat masking the condition. But my daily driver is a 2023 MK8 GTI, which drives perfectly fine and trying to alter throttle release timing between cars would likely drive me crazy. But I suppose it's possible people simply "get used to" it and gradually change their driving style.

Last time I complained, and wondered how anyone could possibly track a car that did this - the post mentioned the "over-rev" would probably not occur at redline, since the ECU would not allow RPM to exceed red-line. An interesting point that is worth exploring during any future track use, but not very practical for daily street driving.

I ordered the Type S without benefit of ever driving one (none in the area). While awaiting delivery, I did a test drive of an A-Spec with the little motor and noted the same rev-hang condition. Inquiring further, I was told the Type S was "not as bad" as the A-Spec. That has proven to be Not true, in my opinion.

Thinking back many years, I drove a Lexus IS-250 manual, and remember complaining to my friend that it held high RPM after releasing the throttle. Like a stuck "dash-pot" in ancient carburetor cars. Just figured there was something wrong with the Lexus back then, but now wonder if it's a "Japanese thing" that's been around for a long time?

The last part there is super insightful. If you recall from the lexus you could recreate that behavior in neutral. That's true "rev hang" that people note and the same thing I had happen in my street 370z and my racecar z. Same engines and all, but even with a tune and all the race hardware it would behave that way in neutral. 11lb flywheel and a 6 puck clutch fixes that pretty quick on track. It would be a nightmare for daily driving.

That's just how the Japanese covered the emissions control requirements back then. The Germans and Americans did... Other things. The its does not have that same rev hang behavior that I've seen. It behaves like the throttle plate stays more open under load, and my understanding is that it's not trying to idle at that rpm and maintain an idle throttle opening but it's instead trying to keep the turbo from sudden surge. This means back on throttle suddenly feels responsive. Combined with the heavy flywheel and inertia at the mid upper rpm range, it just shoots off when you remove the contact.

Jumping from one manual car to another always takes me a few seconds to adjust. I could not get adjusted to the G80 m3. As much as I wanted to love that car, I detested the clutch.

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