1st autocross impressions

[optronix]

Finally got the ITS out for its first autocross experience today. My goal was just to get familiar with the car so I didn't bring my gopro or even take any pictures other than this one-

A bit of background, I'm no where near an "elite autocrosser" or anything like that. I have a bit of experience, but it's pretty much exclusively limited to my regional PCA events, roughly 2-3 a year over the past 4 years, which primarily take place at this same location. I consider it a good and bad thing, good in the sense that I have a good benchmark of other drivers that frequent these events, and where I typically placed with my other cars. Bad in the sense that I'm not very consistent and I'll have "good days and bad days" where my results fluctuate. That said, recently I feel like I've started to figure things out, and I've been noticing I've been placing at or near the top of the leaderboard for all cars with non-R spec tires- in my previous 718 GTS 4.0.

A few random observations in no particular order:

- It took a while to get used to the car. Coming from the 718, it was a bit of an adjustment. If I had to articulate it, I'd say it was mostly adjusting to FWD and turbo lag... but I do feel that by my 4th run, I had it figured out. HOWEVER, as my aggressiveness increased, so did my tendency to hit cones. I think I've nailed the driving dynamics of this car, enough to figure out that I'm going to have a blast with it, and I'll get into that in another observation. But I still have some adjusting to do as far as the dimensions. This is not a small car, and the majority of my experience is in a small car. I'll get there but it will take at least until the next one...

- Speaking of cones, they held me back today! Sort of frustrating, because I finished 31st out of 65 cars officially... ok, not even really good... but my fastest time not counting cone penalties would have put me at 11th overall. I hit cones consistently on my last 3 runs, which got progressively faster but my fastest clean run was over a second off my fastest "dirty run". I know that's not how autocross works, but I think I could have easily matched or beaten that time cleanly if I was just a bit more familiar with the dimensions- and I'll get there. Not bad for first time out!!

- Looking at the other drivers I typically and in tight contention with, it looks like I'd be about 2-2.5 seconds off what I hypothetically could have done in my 718. That is substantial, but the 718 is in a higher class... and over 2x the MSRP.

- I took things slow, playing with different traction control settings. My first run was with the traction control "off"; i.e., I pushed the VSA button once. It let me get wheelspin off the line but I did feel actively held back on the corners. It actually kind of sucked!!! It felt slow as hell, and I was quite perturbed because what it felt like in my mind was horrid turbo lag. I am SO SO glad you can turn it all the way off; it REALLLLLY holds back the car...

- By my 4th run, I had memorized the "pedal dance". It's not that big a deal, but yes you do have to do it every time you turn off the car. It's fine, takes like 10 seconds and you only need to do it if you plan on getting serious in corners; just hitting the button once as I said will let you get some wheelspin off the line if you're that guy who does stoplight things.

- The pedal dance unlocks magic with this car. It is SO FUCKING FUN feeling the rear slide out, and it's so easily controlled by either letting off mid-corner or tapping the brake, and bringing it back under control with the throttle. It is hard to describe but I REALLY enjoyed it, started feeling more and more comfortable with it with each run- even though this tight little autocross course is kind of just a teaser for what a real track day will be like.

Overall I'm THRILLED with my first motorsports experience with this car, even though ultimately my cone habit was what held the car back from competing a bit better. I don't think I could have kept up with the GT3 that posted FTD, but I couldn't have done that in my 718 either... to get out there bone stock on PS4Ss and be knocking on an "unoffficial" time that is knocking on the door of top 10 in a field of ~40% Porsches and another ~30% heavily modified non-Porsches, that's all I can ask for out of this thing. Now I just need to learn to not hit the cones...

 

[optronix]

Also, forgot to add- THE SEATS.

Are fine. I did use my right knee slightly in corners but I've also done that with every Porsche I've owned, which all had the same "Adaptive Sports Seats". Probably more out of habit than necessity. I did not at any point notice or feel that I could use "more bolstering". For reference I'm 5'11" 175 and ~12% bodyfat. So if Porsche seats are adequate, so are ITS seats (arguably the seats in my 911 were worse because they were leather. The microsuede grips better.)

Probably not as dialed in as the Type R seats, but certainly adequate for "light motorsports work".

I'll also add that they're as comfortable on long trips as any seats I've ever had. Ever.

 

[sfedai0]

Great writeup but the only thing I want to ask is did the cones leave a mark?

 

[optronix]

Great writeup but the only thing I want to ask is did the cones leave a mark?

None that I could see. The whole front of the car is covered in PPF but even if I got a mark on the paint/wheels I’ve never encountered a cone mark that couldn’t be lifted with a little polishing compound and elbow grease.

Don’t let the fear of cones keep you from doing autocross! Aside from being pretty rough on the front tires, there Is absolutely minimal risk of any harm at all coming to your car.

 

[neuronbob]

Good to know how the ITS behaves when driven in anger.
I feel much more confident in my ITS than I do in the S2000 or NSX, both of which have limits high above my personal limits. Want to take the ITS to Mid-Ohio for an HPDE at some point.

 

[VtecBuddy]

- The pedal dance unlocks magic with this car. It is SO FUCKING FUN feeling the rear slide out, and it's so easily controlled by either letting off mid-corner or tapping the brake, and bringing it back under control with the throttle.

So to clarify you're saying the ITS has a lot of lift-off oversteer? That's good to hear because some reviewers have been saying the DE5 suspension tunes out most of the tail-happy nature that the FL5 has. Glad to hear it's not actually gone.

 

[optronix]

So to clarify you're saying the ITS has a lot of lift-off oversteer? That's good to hear because some reviewers have been saying the DE5 suspension tunes out most of the tail-happy nature that the FL5 has. Glad to hear it's not actually gone.

It absolutely does. Maybe I wouldn't go so far as to say "a lot" of lift-off oversteer, but it's easy to get the car to rotate. And my personal take is it's just as, if not more fun than throttle oversteer. I'm genuinely excited to get to know this car better and re-train my skills to continue to get the most out of this platform.

I was actually not really expecting to experience a whole lot of this during an autocross, where as we all know speeds don't reach anywhere near what you'd experience on a circuit. But I was very pleasantly surprised with how this thing performed and any reservations I had about using a FWD car for this kind of stuff has evaporated. I do still need to get it out to Summit or Dominion, I'll do what I can to squeeze into an event between now and the end of October.

I'm not sure what conditions other reviewers are driving in... the ones where I know the traction control was disabled were Savagegeese and Throttle House. I think Thomas from Throttle House mentioned it might not rotate as well as the CTR? I haven't driven a CTR so can't comment on a comparison. I will also add that wasn't a high point for Thomas articulating his points effectively during that Type S review but he still liked it overall and it had the exact same time as the Civic around the track. But if I recall the Savagegeese review touched on its ability to rotate but you definitely had to fully disable traction control. Both of them might have suggested that there's a distinction and a trade off you get with the Type R where it is more precise in R mode but the harshness is dialed up to the point of distraction. I could probably see that- which is why ultimately the Type R is better suited for the track. I won't argue that... but also if that's a consideration you can always swap in the Type R ADS!

I can't emphasize enough how critical turning off VSA is to get even close to the best experience out of this car. Probably wouldn't notice it too much on the street, but anything resembling a motorsports event, TURN IT OFF!!! If other reviewers didn't do this then their experience is tainted.

 

[ABPDE5]

It absolutely does. Maybe I wouldn't go so far as to say "a lot" of lift-off oversteer, but it's easy to get the car to rotate. And my personal take is it's just as, if not more fun than throttle oversteer.

I was actually not really expecting to experience a whole lot of this during an autocross, where as we all know speeds don't reach anywhere near what you'd experience on a circuit. But I was very pleasantly surprised with how this thing performed and any reservations I had about using a FWD car for this kind of stuff has evaporated. I do still need to get it out to Summit or Dominion, I'll do what I can to squeeze into an event between now and the end of October.

I'm not sure what conditions other reviewers are driving in... I think Thomas from Throttle House mentioned it might not rotate as well as the CTR? I haven't driven a CTR so can't comment on a comparison. I will also add that a lot of Thomas' comments don't really make sense during that review but he still liked it overall and it had the exact same as the Civic around the track so I guess they don't matter anyway? But if I recall the Savagegeese review touched on its ability to rotate but you definitely had to fully disable traction control.

I can't emphasize enough how critical that is to get even close to the best experience out of this car. Probably wouldn't notice it too much on the street, but anything resembling a motorsports event, TURN IT OFF!!! If other reviewers didn't do this then their experience is tainted.

I don't know how many reviewers actually did the "pedal dance". I can't speak to how much of a difference this might make on a circuit or in autocross, but I personally find it noticeable on the street, and I go through the process to disable all VSA whenever I'm going for an enjoyable drive. It makes a noticeable difference in how the car feels / communicates to me, even if I'm not pushing hard enough to get it to rotate like you would have in auto-x.

 

[optronix]

I don't know how many reviewers actually did the "pedal dance". I can't speak to how much of a difference this might make on a circuit or in autocross, but I personally find it noticeable on the street, and I go through the process to disable all VSA whenever I'm going for an enjoyable drive. It makes a noticeable difference in how the car feels / communicates to me, even if I'm not pushing hard enough to get it to rotate like you would have in auto-x.

I fully agree with this assessment. I should probably add that I intentionally held back telling everyone to disable VSA all the time because I'm not sure it's a great idea to disable traction control for inexperienced drivers on the street...

But I'll be disabling it any time I get near a fun road.

 

[ND2SloActiv]

Reviving an old thread but I'll echo @optronix sentiments.

I've enjoyed driving around on the road and taking it through the Tail of the Dragon (with my family so nothing too crazy), but this car COMES ALIVE when you turn the TC/VSA all the way off. I've been Autocrossing for years now and while I'm not the most amazing driver I can usually get the most out of whatever I'm behind the wheel of.
My ITS the first car I felt was more than my skill level was prepared for. I'm going to have to learn speed modulation. Biggest thing holding me back was going too fast and teeing up cones.
I thought I was going to be content running OE tires and suspension but I'll be pulling the camber bolts, aggressively aligning, getting the RV6 rear bar, and throwing on Apex wheels with 275/35r18s asap. Can't wait to get back out there and see what I can do!

 

[optronix]

Also to revisit this, I have since had it out to a proper race track and can confirm it is wonderful there too. Also had it out to one more autocross event where I placed exceptionally well considering I'm still on the 100% stock setup. The ONLY car faster than me on non-200 TW tires was a 991.2 GTS.

I'm excited for this season, trying not to catch the mod bug is difficult.

 

[StingertimeNC]

do some mods!!!! LOL. it's fun.

 

[optronix]

do some mods!!!! LOL. it's fun.

I know it is, but I'm not quite ready to invest just yet. I think my very first step will be wheels and tires, and the ones I want will run me about $6k with tires. Not quite ready to take that plunge yet.

edit- I think I recall seeing you post on a thread with some wheels I was actually considering, but they were WAY too aggressive for my use case (19x10.5!!!! +45) and don't come with the tires I want- which may actually include street class autocross which basically trims wheel selection down to like, one set of Apex flow forged or the forged FL5 OEM wheels to stay within OEM offsets (+-7mm IIRC).

If I do end up with wheels and tires I'm considering Ohlins DFV, which is another ~$3500, not including install which I will probably want to avoid doing myself. Throw in camber bolts and alignment and it's easily over $4k.

BUT if I were to get a super aggressive set of wheels the suspension would be a necessary step. That's $10k right there. Tough to justify that type of scratch when I like the car stock so much.

I might throw an intake on, I was set on the Gruppe M but have since soured on it for reasons outlined in that thread lol. I want an exhaust too but kind of waiting to see what else comes to market first. I'll almost certainly avoid tuning due to past experiences and I just don't think big power fits the character of this car.

Just not quite compelled to do anything yet, in other words. I'll probably flush out brake fluid and maybe look into some pads, that's an easy start.

 

[StingertimeNC]

I hear you! it's a never ending money pit. I think I'm good for now with wheels, tires, pads, fluid, springs and sway bar. not too crazy. I feel like it's enough with me driving at 90% on track, which may be all I'll ever do. 4 track days a year doesn't justify major mods. Seems like cooling is the biggest issue with this platform when driving 100% for 30 minutes. I really don't want to deal with oil coolers and stuff. Headed to VIR in a few weeks. It's the first time I've done the track in May or any warm month. I typically go in March and Nov. Ambient temps never get above 60's. I'd love to go full suspension as well as tune, but do not want any headaches.