Ideal HP for track, drag and Daily driving

[ElpacoSV]

Everyone,

What would you think is the ideal HP for each application?

Drag
Track
Daily

Let's remember we have a FWD platform

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[SlippyFist]

sorry, i'll see myself out now lol

 

[ElpacoSV]

sorry, i'll see myself out now lol

Good one!!

 

[crepr12]

Daily stock is ok...track/drag racing wrong platform...jmho

 

[optronix]

Daily stock is ok...track/drag racing wrong platform...jhmo

Drag racing, yes I agree, wrong platform.

For track there's nothing wrong with this platform and I'm wondering why anyone would suggest there is, honestly. I get you have a GTR (I think) but that doesn't mean this is a "wrong platform" to take to the track...

If the goal is max lap times then yeah sure, there are better platforms. But is that the argument? I'd argue that people chasing lap times are a different use case, and in that sense what is the "right platform"? A tube-chassis race car? And maybe the simple fact that there are cars that will go faster around a track is the sole reason for the "wrong platform" dig... or maybe it's front-wheel drive- but this car is fully capable of embarrassing much faster cars in a track setting even stock. And even if the lap times can't keep up with equally skilled drivers in faster cars, the accessibility and fun factor are still very much a good reason to take this car to the track.

As for horsepower though, it's pretty adequate as it comes from the factory, especially for track stuff. The OEM setup does an acceptable job of keeping the car cool, but anything beyond that and you're risking having it ruin your day from overheating.

Not that more horsepower is a bad thing, but that's not really this car's vibe... which gets to the actual reasoning for my comment about it being the wrong platform for drag racing. Some may argue that FWD is inherently at a disadvantage vs RWD/AWD for track driving, but I strongly believe that's a fallacy with this particular platform with the DE5/FL5. I'd argue the FK8 and DC2 fall into that category as well, with any inherent disadvantages being engineered out by Honda.

But when it comes to drag racing, you need a LOT of engineering to offset the disadvantage in physics. And while sure yeah there are sub-8 second Hondas out there... at what point does the car barely resemble a Honda in the first place? In that sense, any car is the "right platform" if you're willing to re-engineer everything as a dedicated race car.

Where I will admit to being all over the place with my response- there's no harm in taking your car to the drag strip (other than the wear and tear, 6k clutch dumps can be brutal), in fact it can be very fun. And mid 13s is what I'd expect it to run, and that's nothing to scoff at. But... unless being contrarian is just your thing and you just want to be "the fastest DE5" or something (someone is going to do it, if they haven't already...), it makes less and less sense to take things very far on this platform to focus on drag racing. IMHO.

...actually I watched that video I linked and that Integra is impressive. So in that sense to answer the question- for drag racing, as much horsepower as possible. Or to be specific, if you want to set a world record, shoot for north of 1200.

 

[ElpacoSV]

I'm not a drag race person but to each it's own.

I'm quite happy with stock power. I think that more is pushing the FWD limits. Is it worth it? Perhaps, depending on what the application is.

I think that for daily driving torque is more important and beeing FWD 310 is quite a lot! In normal driving we are often in 1-2-3 and that toque figure is quite impressive in a FWD config.

I'm interested in knowing your input guys.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Very loaded question, lol. I can speak to the track end...

Specific balance of the car for track use, stock power is pretty ideal. Assuming you're keeping tires and alignment stock.

Stickier rubber? Time for more brake!
More brake? Time for oilling!
Oil pan baffled? Time for camber
More camber? Time for more bar or more shock!
More bar and/or shock? Time for more brake!
More brake? Time for more spring
More spring? Time for front aero
Front aero? Time for more spring
More spring? Time for Stickier rubber
More rubber? Time to balance rear aero
Rear aero solid? Time for finer alignment adjustment and shock tuning
Alignment fully in check? Time to play with rear brake bias
Braking all solid? I think we're ready for more power Jerry!!! Let's bump this sucker by ten percent!!

If you've made it this far, you start in the middle of the cycle and go again before getting to another power bump. This also does not include any safety... When you get to aero, it's time to have this car caged. Once caged, it's time for a fixed safety system rather than running flexible. You should absolutely not swap your seat or change your safety system until you're ready to be fully fixed. If you're fully fixed, it's time for a Hans and proper helmet, fire suppression, and so on.

I tuned the car... It makes too much torque for slow corners now. You really have to feather it, especially if in second gear.

 

[UWU-mancer]

Drag racing, yes I agree, wrong platform.

For track there's nothing wrong with this platform and I'm wondering why anyone would suggest there is, honestly. I get you have a GTR (I think) but that doesn't mean this is a "wrong platform" to take to the track...

If the goal is max lap times then yeah sure, there are better platforms. But is that the argument? I'd argue that people chasing lap times are a different use case, and in that sense what is the "right platform"? A tube-chassis race car? And maybe the simple fact that there are cars that will go faster around a track is the sole reason for the "wrong platform" dig... or maybe it's front-wheel drive- but this car is fully capable of embarrassing much faster cars in a track setting even stock. And even if the lap times can't keep up with equally skilled drivers in faster cars, the accessibility and fun factor are still very much a good reason to take this car to the track.

As for horsepower though, it's pretty adequate as it comes from the factory, especially for track stuff. The OEM setup does an acceptable job of keeping the car cool, but anything beyond that and you're risking having it ruin your day from overheating.

Not that more horsepower is a bad thing, but that's not really this car's vibe... which gets to the actual reasoning for my comment about it being the wrong platform for drag racing. Some may argue that FWD is inherently at a disadvantage vs RWD/AWD for track driving, but I strongly believe that's a fallacy with this particular platform with the DE5/FL5. I'd argue the FK8 and DC2 fall into that category as well, with any inherent disadvantages being engineered out by Honda.

But when it comes to drag racing, you need a LOT of engineering to offset the disadvantage in physics. And while sure yeah there are sub-8 second Hondas out there... at what point does the car barely resemble a Honda in the first place? In that sense, any car is the "right platform" if you're willing to re-engineer everything as a dedicated race car.

Where I will admit to being all over the place with my response- there's no harm in taking your car to the drag strip (other than the wear and tear, 6k clutch dumps can be brutal), in fact it can be very fun. And mid 13s is what I'd expect it to run, and that's nothing to scoff at. But... unless being contrarian is just your thing and you just want to be "the fastest DE5" or something (someone is going to do it, if they haven't already...), it makes less and less sense to take things very far on this platform to focus on drag racing. IMHO.

...actually I watched that video I linked and that Integra is impressive. So in that sense to answer the question- for drag racing, as much horsepower as possible. Or to be specific, if you want to set a world record, shoot for north of 1200.

Never meet your heroes bro. Gtr’s are fucking trash. Wanna know what I had to do with mine? Put it under the car that can actually perform. So it can leak on the gtr instead of the floor come winter. Regrettably my circle is full of folks my age and none are stupid enough to buy the shit from me. Cuz everyone knows gtr’s are shit. I haven’t started the damn thing since before Covid. Whole roof is ruined. Fuck gtr’s. They can suck the left side of my right nut bro. Shitty awd system. Crappy motor. Cost cutting everywhere. Terrible suspension. Abs is valved terribly too.

I’d sell it. But then I might get oil on the floor.

I swear the popularity of the gtr just proves how stupid kids are

 

[UWU-mancer]

Everyone,

What would you think is the ideal HP for each application?

Drag
Track
Daily

Let's remember we have a FWD platform

Stock fk8 felt terribly unbalanced at 350wtq. Pfi went low and slow and it was ran at high plains so on went 200tw tires (stock size on stock fk8wheels) and it felt perfect. So did 360 wtq. At 370ish it felt unbalanced again

Just my experience with my old type r. Not saying don’t cross 350. Just saying that’s where I felt I should’ve stopped. The de5 has wider tires. Maybe you can go further before it feels sloppy?

A scalpel is more fun than a sledgehammer imo

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Never meet your heroes bro. Gtr’s are fucking trash. Wanna know what I had to do with mine? Put it under the car that can actually perform. So it can leak on the gtr instead of the floor come winter. Regrettably my circle is full of folks my age and none are stupid enough to buy the shit from me. Cuz everyone knows gtr’s are shit. I haven’t started the damn thing since before Covid. Whole roof is ruined. Fuck gtr’s. They can suck the left side of my right nut bro. Shitty awd system. Crappy motor. Cost cutting everywhere. Terrible suspension. Abs is valved terribly too.

I’d sell it. But then I might get oil on the floor.

I swear the popularity of the gtr just proves how stupid kids are

The modern gtr make terrible track cars. They're great for one lap and that's about it. Heavy pigs is what they are. No one runs them for a reason.

 

[optronix]

Never meet your heroes bro. Gtr’s are fucking trash. Wanna know what I had to do with mine? Put it under the car that can actually perform. So it can leak on the gtr instead of the floor come winter. Regrettably my circle is full of folks my age and none are stupid enough to buy the shit from me. Cuz everyone knows gtr’s are shit. I haven’t started the damn thing since before Covid. Whole roof is ruined. Fuck gtr’s. They can suck the left side of my right nut bro. Shitty awd system. Crappy motor. Cost cutting everywhere. Terrible suspension. Abs is valved terribly too.

I’d sell it. But then I might get oil on the floor.

I swear the popularity of the gtr just proves how stupid kids are

I think the guy I quoted has an R35, which is objectively a fast car. As @Victorofhavoc pointed out, they're not great on consumables so you don't see them out there very often. Aside that, I don't know much else about them honestly because I've never considered owning one as I consider them overpriced and not as attractively designed as their predecessors, lack of manual sealing the deal. But I've respected them as enthusiast vehicles.

Older GTRs, to me, were more appealing for the novelty and really, drag racing. I'm aware there's a history of GT/touring racing for that platform so I won't really get into why your particular R34 apparently sucks, but I wasn't necessarily implying that all GTRs are fantastic track cars. More just stretching for a reason the guy posting seemed to not think the DE5 is an acceptable option for a track car.

End of the day I broke my own rule where I don't bother responding to posts less than 10 words. Boredom gets the best of me quite often on this forum.

Now that we are fully off-topic, It is a bit strange that your experience veers so far off the rails from most people's impressions of "godzilla"... it is a GTR right? My brother had a GTS-T when he was in Okinawa and the way he phrased it is basically the RWD models are kind of "the V6 Mustang of Japan"... but a GTR as far as I'm aware is still a hot commodity. Maybe you're asking too much for the condition it's in? Again, I haven't been immersed in the market for these cars but last I checked a couple years ago, an imported R34 GTR in decent condition with all the t's crossed and i's dotted for legality could fetch upwards of six figures pretty easily.

Trigger warning, but I just watched this vid a few weeks ago and honestly, left with the impression that GTRs are still a benchmark vehicle for enthusiasts. I know this is a special, damn-near one-off version that does not justify the prices people are paying for them, but still. In theory there should be a market for your car if you're trying to get rid of it, right?

 

[UWU-mancer]

The modern gtr make terrible track cars. They're great for one lap and that's about it. Heavy pigs is what they are. No one runs them for a reason.

They’re all pieces of shit. Overhyped for nothing. They make for great drip pans tho

 

[UWU-mancer]

I think the guy I quoted has an R35, which is objectively a fast car. As @Victorofhavoc pointed out, they're not great on consumables so you don't see them out there very often. Aside that, I don't know much else about them honestly because I've never considered owning one as I consider them overpriced and not as attractively designed as their predecessors, lack of manual sealing the deal. But I've respected them as enthusiast vehicles.

Older GTRs, to me, were more appealing for the novelty and really, drag racing. I'm aware there's a history of GT/touring racing for that platform so I won't really get into why your particular R34 apparently sucks, but I wasn't necessarily implying that all GTRs are fantastic track cars. More just stretching for a reason the guy posting seemed to not think the DE5 is an acceptable option for a track car.

End of the day I broke my own rule where I don't bother responding to posts less than 10 words. Boredom gets the best of me quite often on this forum.

Now that we are fully off-topic, It is a bit strange that your experience veers so far off the rails from most people's impressions of "godzilla"... it is a GTR right? My brother had a GTS-T when he was in Okinawa and the way he phrased it is basically the RWD models are kind of "the V6 Mustang of Japan"... but a GTR as far as I'm aware is still a hot commodity. Maybe you're asking too much for the condition it's in? Again, I haven't been immersed in the market for these cars but last I checked a couple years ago, an imported R34 GTR in decent condition with all the t's crossed and i's dotted for legality could fetch upwards of six figures pretty easily.

Trigger warning, but I just watched this vid a few weeks ago and honestly, left with the impression that GTRs are still a benchmark vehicle for enthusiasts. I know this is a special, damn-near one-off version that does not justify the prices people are paying for them, but still. In theory there should be a market for your car if you're trying to get rid of it, right?

Bro I’ve owned 3 of em. They’re all shitty. Like I said, don’t meet your heroes bro

I don’t say this lightly. But id get back into rotaries before id touch another gtr. And if U know anything about rotaries, you’d understand my stance on this

the gtr is all hype bro. Every single freaking generation. I kept this one cuz it’s my oil drip pan. It can at least serve that function. Can recommend

 

[Victorofhavoc]

They’re all pieces of shit. Overhyped for nothing. They make for great drip pans tho

I recall reading a quote from a Ferrari leader (don't recall the long Italian name now) that was misquoted as saying "we just don't see how it's so fast" or something when the r35 was a few months old. His actual full quote goes into more detail and he specs the reasons it did poorly in their simulator. He also drove it later, I believe, and changed his mind about it.

I've driven the r35 (never the older ones) and I was not terrible impressed. Sure they're capable, but the weight is inescapable. The factory alignment setup is also not great so you chew through brakes and tires. The biggest issue I had with is that it's really easy to drive to 90% and "be fast" on track, but that last 10% is just fighting electronics and heat.

A lot of it gets wrapped up in nostalgia for people. I was very excited to drive a lambo and an r8 for the first time but I left deflated from that too. The noise was great... The rest was just a very expensive box to carry around the engine and exhaust. I love my audis, but those cars are pure video game vehicles.

But we went way off topic...

Stock power is ideal for track unless you have other supporting features.

 

[UWU-mancer]

I recall reading a quote from a Ferrari leader (don't recall the long Italian name now) that was misquoted as saying "we just don't see how it's so fast" or something when the r35 was a few months old. His actual full quote goes into more detail and he specs the reasons it did poorly in their simulator. He also drove it later, I believe, and changed his mind about it.

I've driven the r35 (never the older ones) and I was not terrible impressed. Sure they're capable, but the weight is inescapable. The factory alignment setup is also not great so you chew through brakes and tires. The biggest issue I had with is that it's really easy to drive to 90% and "be fast" on track, but that last 10% is just fighting electronics and heat.

A lot of it gets wrapped up in nostalgia for people. I was very excited to drive a lambo and an r8 for the first time but I left deflated from that too. The noise was great... The rest was just a very expensive box to carry around the engine and exhaust. I love my audis, but those cars are pure video game vehicles.

But we went way off topic...

Stock power is ideal for track unless you have other supporting features.

I personally don’t take stock in anything Italian homies say, learned that when we trained with the nato homies

Italian Americans, sure. But Italian Italians? Nah. I’ve seen what they consider coffee……

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