Trading Up? Lateral Move? Trading Down? ITS for CTR

[RUNN1N]

I’m 531 miles in on my Black/Black ITS and got the call that my local dealership (MSRP) got a CW CTR and my name got pulled from their hat… some people have all the bad luck, I know.

They’re pricing my ITS for a potential trade-in… the only add-ons for the CTR are carpet mats and $2k for PPF from the A-pillars forward.

Pray for me.

 

[jchall30]

Can’t really go wrong either way in my opinion

 

[optronix]

It's all in what you want. I'd have to think the money shouldn't really be too much of a factor, because you WILL in every likelihood not make it out in trade value with what you paid a few weeks ago. But if you prefer a white Civic over a black Integra, then you have your answer.

edit- I just thought of something else. In another thread, someone chimed in with wanting to wait for Japanese aftermarket brands to make exhaust for the ITS... and that got me thinking what the likelihood of that actually happening, because this car isn't available in Japan.

So that's something to consider. For those JDM weabs, maybe the Civic is the appropriate choice. But that being said, I think the Integra will get plenty of aftermarket attention locally.

 

[RUNN1N]

So with my trade and the price difference between the two, I'd be able to walk with the Civic and a check for ~$1,900.

I'm planning to go back to check out the stereo in the CTR, but strongly considering this move.

 

[ChromaPop]

I’m 531 miles in on my Black/Black ITS and got the call that my local dealership (MSRP) got a CW CTR and my name got pulled from their hat… some people have all the bad luck, I know.

They’re pricing my ITS for a potential trade-in… the only add-ons for the CTR are carpet mats and $2k for PPF from the A-pillars forward.

Pray for me.

That is a big tax hit in a short amount of time.

 

[RUNN1N]

That is a big tax hit in a short amount of time.

Not in Ohio, actually--we only get taxed on the price difference between the new car and the trade-in, so I'd be looking at ~$238 in taxes since the trade-in value on the ITS is higher than the CTR.

 

[ChromaPop]

Not in Ohio, actually--we only get taxed on the price difference between the new car and the trade-in, so I'd be looking at ~$238 in taxes since the trade-in value on the ITS is higher than the CTR.

Oh nice, very good then. Swing away fine Sir.

 

[Ministry]

Interesting as I'm looking to go the other way. Outside of frequent track duty, I feel the ITS to be superior and far more compelling...

 

[Rdrcr]

Interesting as I'm looking to go the other way. Outside of frequent track duty, I feel the ITS to be superior and far more compelling...

Very logical. Totally makes sense to me. That's precisely how I feel.
However....after seeing both cars side to side, I actually prefer the appearance of the CTR (aside from the rear wing).

It's looking like my local dealer is going to sell me a 2024 CTR allocation for MSRP and zero add-ons.

Mike

 

[bambzolbments]

Yeah but the ITS sound alone is worth it. Also feels faster. Integra is very much Japanese DNA and heritage

 

[RUNN1N]

After checking out the FL5 in person and doing a deep dive on the numbers, I've come to the conclusion that I'm potentially having a midlife crisis... that, or I'm just letting car lust and potential FOMO crowd out my objectivity. In any case, I thought I'd share where I am.

• Win/Win - First and foremost, I truly don't think you can go wrong with either of these cars (at MSRP)--they both look phenomenal and have gotten essentially unanimous praise across the board, both for looks and performance. This has honestly made this a very tough decision.
• Cost/Quality - Granted, neither car is cheap, but both bring a lot to the table for the price and look/feel/perform appropriately. Sure, there are cheaper/faster/more luxurious options out there at both ends of the price range, but the ITS and CTR should both be capable of lasting forever and shouldn't cost too much to properly maintain.
• Seating - The CTR buckets are obviously not for everyone... but they feel phenomenal. Are they necessary for daily use? Or are my ITS seats uncomfortable in comparison? Nope. Do I want the CTR seats anyway? Absolutely. They're fun.
• Gauges - Go straight from the ITS gauge cluster to the CTR in +R mode and tell me you don't go, "Oh, c'mon, I want mine to look just like that!" It's the same hardware, but the ITS doesn't "need" it and I don't "need" it either for driving my kid to/from school. I get it... but I'd trade my HUD for those gauges in a heartbeat. Like the seats, the gauges are fun.
• Stereo - The ITS ELS and the CTR Bose audio is essentially indistinguishable. Maybe it was SavageGeese that compared the two scientifically, but I don't notice a difference.
• Fit/Finish - I do believe I got a "good" ITS. It's Black/Black, has matching paint, and no panel gap issues (none that fall outside my margin for error, at least). I've got a couple noises in the cabin--a buzz somewhere near the HUD, and a rattle somewhere on the passenger side. Neither is annoying enough for me to take the car in for exploratory surgery and risk coming back with something worse, but they're there. My A-Spec + Tech didn't have any sounds (yet, at least). I don't have any miles on the CTR, but I'm more confident in Japan than Marysville.
• Colors - White/Black was my ideal combo (still non-existent, I think) with White/Red as a close second, but the three White/Red I saw in person (one I personally passed on buying at MSRP with no accessories) had paint-matching issues between plastic and metal. This didn't give me much hope for a White ITS. Black/Black was my next favorite... but it is an absolute nuisance to keep looking clean (I was warned), and I swear I can swirl the clearcoat just looking at it. I've got all of the goods to do a paint correction and ceramic coating and had just been waiting for the time/weather needed, and I'm confident I could wrap it I wanted a different color... but that Championship White looks GOOD, is my favorite CTR color, and has already been fully prepped for ceramic.
• Sounds - Yes, the ITS has the winning exhaust of the two cars, it's not even a contest... but even better aftermarket options will follow for both cars. I'm somewhat indifferent about exhaust sounds. I don't think I care much about the NVH difference either, but TBD.
• Looks - These cars are two sides of an equally delightful coin when it comes to looks. I've admitted it before, I love the wing on the CTR. It's big, and it's immature. I think I like it specifically for those reasons. Neither car looks overly grown-up.
• Aftermarket/Beyond - Drivetrain parts will be interchangeable, but I think more bespoke CTR upgrades will be available overall. Partly because it's sold globally, but there's also more CTR "stuff" overall. Who doesn't want a Hot Wheels version of their car?
• Value/Enjoyment - I'd love to know which of these cars will hold value better over time, or which I'd enjoy more... but I figure it's about equal. I'm not trying to dwell too much on the value proposition, as they're both depreciating assets after all.

So how much will 540 miles on my ITS "cost" me if I switch? It's not rude to wonder, I'd be wondering too.

• I've been tracking the value of my A-Spec + Tech closely since I traded it in June (because that's a completely reasonable hobby) and it's lost approximately $3,000 in value--my apologies for everyone waiting on reservation allocations, brutal month for trade-in values.
• My trade-in offer was $2,300 less than I paid for my ITS with accessories (not counting taxes, since the trade-in value on new purchases in Ohio offsets the taxable amount, so there's essentially no tax owed on the CTR), but that's still slightly more than the cost of the CTR at MSRP with $2,000 in paint correction and PPF from the A-pillar forward.
• Had I waited for a different ITS color and had this CTR opportunity come up now, I might've saved ~$4,165 having not bought the ITS (calling that an "impulse penalty")... but I have to admit, I was calling dealerships all the way up to my ITS purchase trying to negotiate a CTR for ADM $5,000 or less with zero luck.

I'm still not quite decided on which I'll go with, but that's at least my rationale.

 

[TomK]

What’s the MAIN reason you’re drawn to wanting to switch?

I sold my white FL5 months ago because it wasn’t as daily friendly as I assumed the ITS would be. Based on everything I’ve seen, I was correct. I’ll find out for myself this Saturday when I pick up by MBP ITS Saturday.

After checking out the FL5 in person and doing a deep dive on the numbers, I've come to the conclusion that I'm potentially having a midlife crisis... that, or I'm just letting car lust and potential FOMO crowd out my objectivity. In any case, I thought I'd share where I am.

• Win/Win - First and foremost, I truly don't think you can go wrong with either of these cars (at MSRP)--they both look phenomenal and have gotten essentially unanimous praise across the board, both for looks and performance. This has honestly made this a very tough decision.
• Cost/Quality - Granted, neither car is cheap, but both bring a lot to the table for the price and look/feel/perform appropriately. Sure, there are cheaper/faster/more luxurious options out there at both ends of the price range, but the ITS and CTR should both be capable of lasting forever and shouldn't cost too much to properly maintain.
• Seating - The CTR buckets are obviously not for everyone... but they feel phenomenal. Are they necessary for daily use? Or are my ITS seats uncomfortable in comparison? Nope. Do I want the CTR seats anyway? Absolutely. They're fun.
• Gauges - Go straight from the ITS gauge cluster to the CTR in +R mode and tell me you don't go, "Oh, c'mon, I want mine to look just like that!" It's the same hardware, but the ITS doesn't "need" it and I don't "need" it either for driving my kid to/from school. I get it... but I'd trade my HUD for those gauges in a heartbeat. Like the seats, the gauges are fun.
• Stereo - The ITS ELS and the CTR Bose audio is essentially indistinguishable. Maybe it was SavageGeese that compared the two scientifically, but I don't notice a difference.
• Fit/Finish - I do believe I got a "good" ITS. It's Black/Black, has matching paint, and no panel gap issues (none that fall outside my margin for error, at least). I've got a couple noises in the cabin--a buzz somewhere near the HUD, and a rattle somewhere on the passenger side. Neither is annoying enough for me to take the car in for exploratory surgery and risk coming back with something worse, but they're there. My A-Spec + Tech didn't have any sounds (yet, at least). I don't have any miles on the CTR, but I'm more confident in Japan than Marysville.
• Colors - White/Black was my ideal combo (still non-existent, I think) with White/Red as a close second, but the three White/Red I saw in person (one I personally passed on buying at MSRP with no accessories) had paint-matching issues between plastic and metal. This didn't give me much hope for a White ITS. Black/Black was my next favorite... but it is an absolute nuisance to keep looking clean (I was warned), and I swear I can swirl the clearcoat just looking at it. I've got all of the goods to do a paint correction and ceramic coating and had just been waiting for the time/weather needed, and I'm confident I could wrap it I wanted a different color... but that Championship White looks GOOD, is my favorite CTR color, and has already been fully prepped for ceramic.
• Sounds - Yes, the ITS has the winning exhaust of the two cars, it's not even a contest... but even better aftermarket options will follow for both cars. I'm somewhat indifferent about exhaust sounds. I don't think I care much about the NVH difference either, but TBD.
• Looks - These cars are two sides of an equally delightful coin when it comes to looks. I've admitted it before, I love the wing on the CTR. It's big, and it's immature. I think I like it specifically for those reasons. Neither car looks overly grown-up.
• Aftermarket/Beyond - Drivetrain parts will be interchangeable, but I think more bespoke CTR upgrades will be available overall. Partly because it's sold globally, but there's also more CTR "stuff" overall. Who doesn't want a Hot Wheels version of their car?
• Value/Enjoyment - I'd love to know which of these cars will hold value better over time, or which I'd enjoy more... but I figure it's about equal. I'm not trying to dwell too much on the value proposition, as they're both depreciating assets after all.

So how much will 540 miles on my ITS "cost" me if I switch? It's not rude to wonder, I'd be wondering too.

• I've been tracking the value of my A-Spec + Tech closely since I traded it in June (because that's a completely reasonable hobby) and it's lost approximately $3,000 in value--my apologies for everyone waiting on reservation allocations, brutal month for trade-in values.
• My trade-in offer was $2,300 less than I paid for my ITS with accessories (not counting taxes, since the trade-in value on new purchases in Ohio offsets the taxable amount, so there's essentially no tax owed on the CTR), but that's still slightly more than the cost of the CTR at MSRP with $2,000 in paint correction and PPF from the A-pillar forward.
• Had I waited for a different ITS color and had this CTR opportunity come up now, I might've saved ~$4,165 having not bought the ITS (calling that an "impulse penalty")... but I have to admit, I was calling dealerships all the way up to my ITS purchase trying to negotiate a CTR for ADM $5,000 or less with zero luck.

I'm still not quite decided on which I'll go with, but that's at least my rationale.

 

[Clark_Kent]

After checking out the FL5 in person and doing a deep dive on the numbers, I've come to the conclusion that I'm potentially having a midlife crisis... that, or I'm just letting car lust and potential FOMO crowd out my objectivity. In any case, I thought I'd share where I am.

• Win/Win - First and foremost, I truly don't think you can go wrong with either of these cars (at MSRP)--they both look phenomenal and have gotten essentially unanimous praise across the board, both for looks and performance. This has honestly made this a very tough decision.
• Cost/Quality - Granted, neither car is cheap, but both bring a lot to the table for the price and look/feel/perform appropriately. Sure, there are cheaper/faster/more luxurious options out there at both ends of the price range, but the ITS and CTR should both be capable of lasting forever and shouldn't cost too much to properly maintain.
• Seating - The CTR buckets are obviously not for everyone... but they feel phenomenal. Are they necessary for daily use? Or are my ITS seats uncomfortable in comparison? Nope. Do I want the CTR seats anyway? Absolutely. They're fun.
• Gauges - Go straight from the ITS gauge cluster to the CTR in +R mode and tell me you don't go, "Oh, c'mon, I want mine to look just like that!" It's the same hardware, but the ITS doesn't "need" it and I don't "need" it either for driving my kid to/from school. I get it... but I'd trade my HUD for those gauges in a heartbeat. Like the seats, the gauges are fun.
• Stereo - The ITS ELS and the CTR Bose audio is essentially indistinguishable. Maybe it was SavageGeese that compared the two scientifically, but I don't notice a difference.
• Fit/Finish - I do believe I got a "good" ITS. It's Black/Black, has matching paint, and no panel gap issues (none that fall outside my margin for error, at least). I've got a couple noises in the cabin--a buzz somewhere near the HUD, and a rattle somewhere on the passenger side. Neither is annoying enough for me to take the car in for exploratory surgery and risk coming back with something worse, but they're there. My A-Spec + Tech didn't have any sounds (yet, at least). I don't have any miles on the CTR, but I'm more confident in Japan than Marysville.
• Colors - White/Black was my ideal combo (still non-existent, I think) with White/Red as a close second, but the three White/Red I saw in person (one I personally passed on buying at MSRP with no accessories) had paint-matching issues between plastic and metal. This didn't give me much hope for a White ITS. Black/Black was my next favorite... but it is an absolute nuisance to keep looking clean (I was warned), and I swear I can swirl the clearcoat just looking at it. I've got all of the goods to do a paint correction and ceramic coating and had just been waiting for the time/weather needed, and I'm confident I could wrap it I wanted a different color... but that Championship White looks GOOD, is my favorite CTR color, and has already been fully prepped for ceramic.
• Sounds - Yes, the ITS has the winning exhaust of the two cars, it's not even a contest... but even better aftermarket options will follow for both cars. I'm somewhat indifferent about exhaust sounds. I don't think I care much about the NVH difference either, but TBD.
• Looks - These cars are two sides of an equally delightful coin when it comes to looks. I've admitted it before, I love the wing on the CTR. It's big, and it's immature. I think I like it specifically for those reasons. Neither car looks overly grown-up.
• Aftermarket/Beyond - Drivetrain parts will be interchangeable, but I think more bespoke CTR upgrades will be available overall. Partly because it's sold globally, but there's also more CTR "stuff" overall. Who doesn't want a Hot Wheels version of their car?
• Value/Enjoyment - I'd love to know which of these cars will hold value better over time, or which I'd enjoy more... but I figure it's about equal. I'm not trying to dwell too much on the value proposition, as they're both depreciating assets after all.

So how much will 540 miles on my ITS "cost" me if I switch? It's not rude to wonder, I'd be wondering too.

• I've been tracking the value of my A-Spec + Tech closely since I traded it in June (because that's a completely reasonable hobby) and it's lost approximately $3,000 in value--my apologies for everyone waiting on reservation allocations, brutal month for trade-in values.
• My trade-in offer was $2,300 less than I paid for my ITS with accessories (not counting taxes, since the trade-in value on new purchases in Ohio offsets the taxable amount, so there's essentially no tax owed on the CTR), but that's still slightly more than the cost of the CTR at MSRP with $2,000 in paint correction and PPF from the A-pillar forward.
• Had I waited for a different ITS color and had this CTR opportunity come up now, I might've saved ~$4,165 having not bought the ITS (calling that an "impulse penalty")... but I have to admit, I was calling dealerships all the way up to my ITS purchase trying to negotiate a CTR for ADM $5,000 or less with zero luck.

I'm still not quite decided on which I'll go with, but that's at least my rationale.

It sounds as if you already have one foot out the door so to speak. Interesting observation on the ELS Studio 3D vis-à-vis the Bose. I drove the ITS twice and found the ITS sound system to be better than the Bose in my FL5 CTR. It was bass heavy out the box for sure but the sound was deeper, richer, and overall more fulsome. I'm sure with EQ fine tuning it would sound even better. Anyhow, interested to see what you decide.

 

[Hakmamba]

Sell a Kidney, buy both.. But honestly all are valid reasons, especially with the tax savings that not all of us in other states can get. In the end i say go for it, if down the road you want to get back into an ITS, i feel its easier to acquire than a CW FL5. If you need a nudge, black is very hard to keep clean.

 

[RUNN1N]

What’s the MAIN reason you’re drawn to wanting to switch?

I sold my white FL5 months ago because it wasn’t as daily friendly as I assumed the ITS would be. Based on everything I’ve seen, I was correct. I’ll find out for myself this Saturday when I pick up by MBP ITS Saturday.

Funny enough, my daily needs are pretty mild--I do about 70 miles/week driving ~4 days, mostly suburban with little traffic but often at School Zone speed--and I think I can probably look right by the CTR's more subjectively harsh qualities in exchange for the extra fun points (seats, gauges, wing). How would you classify your daily needs? What did you not enjoy about the CTR? Is it safe to assume you made some profit on the CTR?

My MAIN reason for wanting this? Tough to put a finger on it. Local availability + CW + MSRP spurred the whole thing--I'd stopped calling for the CTR when I got my ITS after making a LOT of CTR calls. The call I got Saturday was totally unexpected, never even knew for sure I was on this dealership's list (bad communicators). I personally wouldn't be interested today at a markup or in any other color... but for me, I think the CTR in CW is a knockout and I'm wondering being manufactured in Japan + relative scarcity make it a better product for long-term ownership with generally mild use. I certainly won't get this opportunity twice. The ITS in MBP is mean-looking, but I'd probably wrap it eventually--either for more "pop", easier cleaning, or both.

It sounds as if you already have one foot out the door so to speak. Interesting observation on the ELS Studio 3D vis-à-vis the Bose. I drove the ITS twice and found the ITS sound system to be better than the Bose in my FL5 CTR. It was bass heavy out the box for sure but the sound was deeper, richer, and overall more fulsome. I'm sure with EQ fine tuning it would sound even better. Anyhow, interested to see what you decide.

They're supposed to be 100% identical, but I've always thought my A-Spec + Tech's ELS was better than the one in my ITS. I know it sounds crazy, it's tough to explain. It could very well be the ELS sounded better over the 1.5T. The ITS certainly has more to listen to with the stereo off. I thought the CTR's Bose stereo was awful until I realized the Centerpoint setting (or whatever it's called) was turned off.

Sell a Kidney, buy both.. But honestly all are valid reasons, especially with the tax savings that not all of us in other states can get. In the end i say go for it, if down the road you want to get back into an ITS, i feel its easier to acquire than a CW FL5. If you need a nudge, black is very hard to keep clean.

Google suggests kidneys are worth $10k or less, and I've only got one space in the garage, but I think you're right that I could probably pivot back to an ITS rather easily if I ultimately wanted to... but my wife's legit not going to have it. She was very excited for the A-Spec + Tech and becoming a 2-car household again, moderately excited for the ITS, and indifferent about the possible CTR--I suspect her reaction to a 4th car will be outright rage.