Power steering question

[bpebler]

Agree. My ITS is also tuned but I have not dynoed it so I don’t know the hp and torque improvement. However when I put the M3 on Sport+ and used the launch control, I know I will never accelerate that fast with the ITS. I know the RS3 is not as fast as the M3 but it is pretty close. And even though I have driven manual cars since I was 13 (born in Asia so everything was manuals), I don’t think I can change gears that fast to compete with those smooth/precise automatic. Lastly, with the added power in the tuned ITS, I felt more wheel hops during launch especially with map 1, even with the Ps4S in good road/weather conditions. I have the PRL RMM, which hopefully will reduce the hops, but still too cold and too lazy to install it.

I’ve noticed the PRL RMM did much better with the oem wheels/tires than the DWS06+ in 18’s. I’m hoping it’s due to the cold also, but will be able to tell better in a month or two.

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[bpebler]

I forgot you were tuned, totally different story. You might have taken him.

It's haughty for me to sit here and preach about street racing but it's just not something I think about any more.

I’m hoping that with getting into actual tracking finally that I can put the street stuff behind me also & not think about it. I’m too old for that by now anyway & should be more wise. ?

 

[bpebler]

Yeah, 380 whp / 3200 lbs is pretty quick. From a roll, in good conditions, he's actually got a pretty decent chance. That said, regardless of how good you are with a manual, that auto trans will make a fool of you in a drag race.

100%. I don’t wanna risk powertrain issues & mess with drag racing either. I definitely would’ve chose a different vehicle for that, too. If the kids were grown I may have went a totally different route like GT350 or Blackwing. But the practicality is really a cool thing in a fun vehicle with the ITS! Plus having something you don’t see often on the road too.

 

[Blek le Roc]

Plus having something you don’t see often on the road too.

I have yet to see another ITS around here, on the road or parked.

 

[bpebler]

I have yet to see another ITS around here, on the road or parked.

Are you on FB? I’m not a fan of it really, but it’s how I connect to 2 others around here for car shows, cruises, etc. We have private car group chats that I can invite you to if so.

 

[Blek le Roc]

Thanks, but no, I'm not into FB.

 

[Elusive23]

Engineers are doing everything they can with EPS. For cars like the ITS it is absolutely a priority. Do not underestimate the quality of the ITS steering.

In fact, just go drive an Audi. Literally any one. Grab an RS6 if you can. You'll come away with a new appreciation for your ITS.

BMW isn't much better, arguably WORSE unless it's an M car. Then it's just "meh".

"Steering feel" is one of the most annoyingly subjective things in the enthusiast vernacular today. I'm convinced that no two people are ever going to universally agree on steering feel for every car. Especially when talking EPS. For me, some cars are unequivocally bad (Audi) and some cars are fantastic (Porsche), and there's a lot in between. Also, EPS steering continues to get better over time. The early Porsche racks in the 981 and 991 are nowhere near as good as the ones in the 991.2 and 718, let alone the 992. Or even my Macan GTS!

I stand by my initial assessment back when I got the car that the ITS is Porsche-level. I won't try to argue it's better, but I would argue it's as good as a Porsche.

Actually while we're on the subject, hydraulic steering is overrated. As hell. IMHO. There's this overhanging nostalgia for hydraulic steering that is not really substantiated when you get behind the wheel. Sort of like retro video games; we feel like we miss them because we have fond memories but you go to play one and you're just like "fuck, this is terrible" compared to modern games.

I'll just use the 2015 STI I had in comparison, I think that's fair because trying to compare to a Porsche from 30-40 years ago is a fool's errand. I could also use an E92 335i, or E36 M3 that I had. Same story; the STI is the most recent. The steering in the STI was pretty good, sure it might have "loaded up" a bit more noticeably, but it was still pretty darty and sensitive and definitely didn't measurably impact the driving experience. The ITS driving experience is CATEGORICALLY better than a 2015 Subaru, which makes you instantly forget about the nuances of the steering. Tires, suspension technology, and power delivery are so incomprehensibly better it just isn't worth thinking about these old cars, or pining about "they don't make them like they used to"... if you want that experience, you're just going to have to go buy an old car. Simple as that.

Finding this and reading this was like therapy for me this morning.

I recently got all in my feelings about the interior quality of my Type-S. The “leatherette”, the cheap plastic, the stupid rattles that appear and disappear depending on how hot or cold it was that day. It just really started to grind on the amount I paid for this car and the main gripe being that the interior just doesn’t feel or live up to the rest of the cars looks and driving dynamics. But I get it, at the end of the day is a extremely dialed in sporty Honda. And to be fair…thats what I wanted!

Then I went off the rails and lusted at a 2026 M2….*furiously searching for M2’s to test drive and staying up late watching all kinds of YouYube videos. Car boner is full on raging boner about to explode*
Yes, I like the looks and was even looking at exterior mods to piece together the most badass looking M2 I could build to satisfy my fantasy…

The same amount of effort I put into the Integra for god sakes.

Anyways, I test drove one yesterday, and by time I pulled back into the lot and the dealership was appraising my Integra, I had to stop them and tell that I had some serious second thoughts.

I absolutely want the luxury of the BMW, the intoxicating smell of the leather seats. They were so comfortable. The S58 engine sounded great even with the fake speakers noises. The huge screen was a but much. But I really wanted that high quality cabin that just screams “you get what you paid for”. But more
Importantly it just felt really nice.

BUT…the steering even in Sport (the highest setting) WTF…felt like I was steering nothing. I already read that it felt numb. But wow. I was shocked and it completely bursted my bubble.

tbh Im still thinking about the M2 and whether or not I could get over it. Or whether if I traded in my Integra if I would miss it. The answer is hell to the f*ck yea. But Im still thinking about everything else the M2 is.

I did however drive me Type S home about an hour and a half away just ripping this thing on the freeway marveling at just how amazing the steering, the shifting, the handling, the power delivery. Everything is so freaking dialed. And the sad reality crept in that most cars suck and its not getting any better.

So that was my long winded way of saying I appreciate this car very much so now. But Im still thinking about the M2 even though my logicL brain wont let me make that stupid decision. Because the thrill and sensation of the car is the crux of it.

Sorry for the long response. I kinda needed to vent lol

 

[optronix]

Finding this and reading this was like therapy for me this morning.

I recently got all in my feelings about the interior quality of my Type-S. The “leatherette”, the cheap plastic, the stupid rattles that appear and disappear depending on how hot or cold it was that day. It just really started to grind on the amount I paid for this car and the main gripe being that the interior just doesn’t feel or live up to the rest of the cars looks and driving dynamics. But I get it, at the end of the day is a extremely dialed in sporty Honda. And to be fair…thats what I wanted!

Then I went off the rails and lusted at a 2026 M2….*furiously searching for M2’s to test drive and staying up late watching all kinds of YouYube videos. Car boner is full on raging boner about to explode*
Yes, I like the looks and was even looking at exterior mods to piece together the most badass looking M2 I could build to satisfy my fantasy…

The same amount of effort I put into the Integra for god sakes.

Anyways, I test drove one yesterday, and by time I pulled back into the lot and the dealership was appraising my Integra, I had to stop them and tell that I had some serious second thoughts.

I absolutely want the luxury of the BMW, the intoxicating smell of the leather seats. They were so comfortable. The S58 engine sounded great even with the fake speakers noises. The huge screen was a but much. But I really wanted that high quality cabin that just screams “you get what you paid for”. But more
Importantly it just felt really nice.

BUT…the steering even in Sport (the highest setting) WTF…felt like I was steering nothing. I already read that it felt numb. But wow. I was shocked and it completely bursted my bubble.

tbh Im still thinking about the M2 and whether or not I could get over it. Or whether if I traded in my Integra if I would miss it. The answer is hell to the f*ck yea. But Im still thinking about everything else the M2 is.

I did however drive me Type S home about an hour and a half away just ripping this thing on the freeway marveling at just how amazing the steering, the shifting, the handling, the power delivery. Everything is so freaking dialed. And the sad reality crept in that most cars suck and its not getting any better.

So that was my long winded way of saying I appreciate this car very much so now. But Im still thinking about the M2 even though my logicL brain wont let me make that stupid decision. Because the thrill and sensation of the car is the crux of it.

Sorry for the long response. I kinda needed to vent lol

All good. We all go through this as enthusiasts. I'm not here to talk you out of it or into it. They're both very good cars, but they do have different profiles for what they're very good at.

I've grown to like the M2. But very important note- I haven't driven one. I actually just saw a video yesterday about the M2 CS from my favorite YouTuber, @Zygrene and he really liked the CS... but he doesn't like the base car. The CS is WAAAAAY more expensive than an ITS so it damn sure better be really good. But I still don't think I'd actively choose one over my ITS. And yes- it all boils down to driving dynamics, and how the car "fits" what I want out of a car right now.

That said, the M2 is just stupid fast. There's a guy that drives me nuts, routinely places higher than me in autocross. I just can't catch that car with a competent driver (FWIW he does have an automatic, which is a HUGE advantage in autocross...). It is a tad bit frustrating. But it really gets down to power. Even in autocross, the power delivery coupled with the grip that car has just puts it a league higher (although I'm classed the same as the M2 in B street- which is bullshit). On a track the difference would be even more pronounced.

But I have little doubt which car would be more fun, in all settings.

In any case, the M2 just hits different notes. To many, they'll vastly prefer an M2. To me, it's the other way around. But I like the car, no doubt. I was disappointed at first (and still think the design could be much, much better), but I would fault no one for choosing an M2 over an ITS.

I would suggest you consider an F87 - which I do prefer over the G87 still - but the steering issue remains. It's still a BMW with an electric rack after all. They just haven't figured out the inputs... not since the E46 (which still had a meh shifter).

edit- if you want an additional option to consider, look into the Cadillac Blackwings. The CT4 is more comparable at the price point of an M2, and the power slots between the M2 and ITS, but from what I hear the inputs are far better than the M2, on par with the ITS. Interior should also be more upscale than the Integra but probably not as nice as the BMW. Might be worth a look.

 

[Elusive23]

All good. We all go through this as enthusiasts. I'm not here to talk you out of it or into it. They're both very good cars, but they do have different profiles for what they're very good at.

I've grown to like the M2. But very important note- I haven't driven one. I actually just saw a video yesterday about the M2 CS from my favorite YouTuber, @Zygrene and he really liked the CS... but he doesn't like the base car. The CS is WAAAAAY more expensive than an ITS so it damn sure better be really good. But I still don't think I'd actively choose one over my ITS. And yes- it all boils down to driving dynamics, and how the car "fits" what I want out of a car right now.

That said, the M2 is just stupid fast. There's a guy that drives me nuts, routinely places higher than me in autocross. I just can't catch that car with a competent driver (FWIW he does have an automatic, which is a HUGE advantage in autocross...). It is a tad bit frustrating. But it really gets down to power. Even in autocross, the power delivery coupled with the grip that car has just puts it a league higher (although I'm classed the same as the M2 in B street- which is bullshit). On a track the difference would be even more pronounced.

But I have little doubt which car would be more fun, in all settings.

In any case, the M2 just hits different notes. To many, they'll vastly prefer an M2. To me, it's the other way around. But I like the car, no doubt. I was disappointed at first (and still think the design could be much, much better), but I would fault no one for choosing an M2 over an ITS.

I would suggest you consider an F87 - which I do prefer over the G87 still - but the steering issue remains. It's still a BMW with an electric rack after all. They just haven't figured out the inputs... not since the E46 (which still had a meh shifter).

edit- if you want an additional option to consider, look into the Cadillac Blackwings. The CT4 is more comparable at the price point of an M2, and the power slots between the M2 and ITS, but from what I hear the inputs are far better than the M2, on par with the ITS. Interior should also be more upscale than the Integra but probably not as nice as the BMW. Might be worth a look.

I knew posting here would provide the car therapy I need. My gf is pretty awesome at listening to me talk about cars, but she has yet to experience or own an enthusiastic vehicle herself to fully understand the first world problems we share

I’ve read quite a few of your responses on this forum and am impressed how active you are on this forum and I respect all your feedback and outlook as an enthusiast and as someone who has track experience. Kudos for always keeping it classy and respectful here

But yea obviously the M2 engine is next level and it would easily satisfy the want for more power and engine sound that every car lover wants.

Im definitely still mulling it over to see if satisfying everything else to see if I would eventually get over the steering feel. From my research even with an EPS flash and monoball joints isnt going to come even close to what Honda has done here. Major hats off to them.

If I'm just thinking out loud here; if there was a way to add a bit more weight/resistance to the steering it might be enough to make me think otherwise. But another thing I noticed about the M2 steering is that it almost felt like there was nothing pulling the wheel back to the center when coming out of a turn. So weird.

Anyways, im still thinking about the M2 and maybe test driving it again. For what its worth the dealership did let me test drive an M3 Comp (2025 @8500 miles and auto) and was able to put the steering in Sport Plus which added some weight. But it felt just a tad lighter than the Type-S in comfort. But it was enough to make me consider the M3 Comp.

But add pretty much another 10K for a car that I see way too much on the road loses its “special-ness”. M2 Base is probably the max I would go at this point. M2 Comp…forget about it. Both those cars would add another option to loss which would be manual transmission, which Im certain I would regret losing.

I did look at the CT4 and heard amazing things about it. But I dont think I can do Cadillac. Just not my style at all. And its also in M2 Comp/M3 territory.

But yea looking at F80 and F87. Looking for a low mileage F80 manual is ridiculous. And im well aware of the PPI i would need to do if I even found a good example and then the crank hub issue.

So naturally my mind goes back to M2.

lol This is my brain rn. Meanwhile driving the Integra around just feels so right and the humble side of me is just saying “shame on you”.

 

[optronix]

I’ve read quite a few of your responses on this forum and am impressed how active you are on this forum and I respect all your feedback and outlook as an enthusiast and as someone who has track experience. Kudos for always keeping it classy and respectful here

Lol, you clearly haven't seen my full post history hahaha.

I try to keep it classy, but fail sometimes. But it goes both ways. I'm active on here mostly out of boredom but also shared interests... I love chats like these but also I get annoyed pretty easily with takes I think are dumb, and I'm happy to share my thoughts about just exactly how I think they're dumb- but generally I match people's energy. If they seem like a dick, I'll act like a dick. And vice versa. It's all conversation to me. I try not to resort to trolling or personal attacks but it's the internet and people take things VERY seriously sometimes.

Weirdly though I've met quite a few of actual personal friends IRL, and our first online interactions were anything but friendly.

In any case, it's a blessing and a curse being into cars. There's so many good ones out there, it's pretty easy to get caught up in the rabbit hole of what it would be like to own one after catching a couple interesting YouTube vids or journalist reviews, and it's gotten the better of me more times than I'd like to admit. This car helped me break a bad habit of being a serial car-hopper, and it did it vs a string of much more expensive cars. My vote is to stick with the ITS, unless you have an itch you REALLY need to scratch. The rattles are indeed annoying AF, but it makes up for it with the way it drives, and in my honest assessment that part can't be matched until you get to MUCH higher price points.

 

[Elusive23]

Lol, you clearly haven't seen my full post history hahaha.

I try to keep it classy, but fail sometimes. But it goes both ways. I'm active on here mostly out of boredom but also shared interests... I love chats like these but also I get annoyed pretty easily with takes I think are dumb, and I'm happy to share my thoughts about just exactly how I think they're dumb- but generally I match people's energy. If they seem like a dick, I'll act like a dick. And vice versa. It's all conversation to me. I try not to resort to trolling or personal attacks but it's the internet and people take things VERY seriously sometimes.

Weirdly though I've met quite a few of actual personal friends IRL, and our first online interactions were anything but friendly.

In any case, it's a blessing and a curse being into cars. There's so many good ones out there, it's pretty easy to get caught up in the rabbit hole of what it would be like to own one after catching a couple interesting YouTube vids or journalist reviews, and it's gotten the better of me more times than I'd like to admit. This car helped me break a bad habit of being a serial car-hopper, and it did it vs a string of much more expensive cars. My vote is to stick with the ITS, unless you have an itch you REALLY need to scratch. The rattles are indeed annoying AF, but it makes up for it with the way it drives, and in my honest assessment that part can't be matched until you get to MUCH higher price points.

Oh Ive seen your spicy ones! Haha but they were well deserved. Totally feel you dishing it to the ones who deserve it. But thats what makes you a real one. Im the same way until I have to respond to a total dumbass who’s incapable of just being a decent person. Thats why I mostly stay off social network sites.

But, man I know what I have with my ITS. Tempers are cooling. Itch is still there, though. Gonna test drive the M2 again next week or so just to feel it again and see if I can live with it. Im also looking into what mods could improve the steering. I think if I could throw money at it and get close, then maybe? Lol

i would do both but I know that would just be ridiculous of me and I would feel like a total douche. Or maybe I just get a comfy SUV as a roadtrip/camping vehicle with a nice interior and that would scratch the nice interior itch. Keep the ITS and live happily ever after.

 

[ABPDE5]

Oh Ive seen your spicy ones! Haha but they were well deserved. Totally feel you dishing it to the ones who deserve it. But thats what makes you a real one. Im the same way until I have to respond to a total dumbass who’s incapable of just being a decent person. Thats why I mostly stay off social network sites.

But, man I know what I have with my ITS. Tempers are cooling. Itch is still there, though. Gonna test drive the M2 again next week or so just to feel it again and see if I can live with it. Im also looking into what mods could improve the steering. I think if I could throw money at it and get close, then maybe? Lol

i would do both but I know that would just be ridiculous of me and I would feel like a total douche. Or maybe I just get a comfy SUV as a roadtrip/camping vehicle with a nice interior and that would scratch the nice interior itch. Keep the ITS and live happily ever after.

4 door fwd sedan + 2 door rwd coupe seems like a very reasonable garage to me

I will also say, $200 of kilmat, aggfoam, and a little felt tape really does wonders for the feel / ambiance of the car. Hitting the doors, hatch, and some of the interior panels solves a lot of cabin noise, hollow sounding / feeling panels, rattles, etc. (No, it won't make it as nice as the BMW, and no it shouldn't fall on the consumer to address those issues.)

 

[Elusive23]

4 door fwd sedan + 2 door rwd coupe seems like a very reasonable garage to me

I will also say, $200 of kilmat, aggfoam, and a little felt tape really does wonders for the feel / ambiance of the car. Hitting the doors, hatch, and some of the interior panels solves a lot of cabin noise, hollow sounding / feeling panels, rattles, etc. (No, it won't make it as nice as the BMW, and no it shouldn't fall on the consumer to address those issues.)

LOL omg please dont encourage my non-sense!

Tbh some of these rattles I cant even identify where they are coming from exactly. Ive even had my girlfriend try to find them while I drive around at a particular RPM. Typically around 2500-3000 RPM i hear a super annoying one coming from what sounds somewhere near the right side speaker grill or maybe near the right side dash/door/window. But touching anywhere near where the sound is coming from (even the speaker grill) doesnt stop it.

So I wonder if its coming from inside the dash?

By that time Im on the freeway and then its gone. Maddening!

To be fair, Im sure it could be worse. Im sensitive to shit like this. Its like listening to my girl smack when she eats her food. At least I can tell her to knock it off! Nicely of course

Also, apologies if I hijacked this thread in anyway.

 

[ABPDE5]

LOL omg please dont encourage my non-sense!

Tbh some of these rattles I cant even identify where they are coming from exactly. Ive even had my girlfriend try to find them while I drive around at a particular RPM. Typically around 2500-3000 RPM i hear a super annoying one coming from what sounds somewhere near the right side speaker grill or maybe near the right side dash/door/window. But touching anywhere near where the sound is coming from (even the speaker grill) doesnt stop it.

So I wonder if its coming from inside the dash?

By that time Im on the freeway and then its gone. Maddening!

To be fair, Im sure it could be worse. Im sensitive to shit like this. Its like listening to my girl smack when she eats her food. At least I can tell her to knock it off! Nicely of course

Also, apologies if I hijacked this thread in anyway.

I had a rattle I thought was coming from there at a similar RPM... it was actually from one of the AC duct pieces in the center console (rattle sound presumeably made its way through the AC ducting and presented as if it was coming from the passenger side dash). Item #2:

It is (rather poorly) moulded from some of the shittiest plastic imaginable. It's very light-weight, very resonant, and it sits very loosely in place (inserts at both ends).

Don't ask me how I narrowed it down (had to find someone else to drove), but I was able to confirm it by removing the piano black console top and sneaking my hand in there to stop the rattle.

Best of luck if you do try to hunt them down... awful experience

 

[optronix]

LOL omg please dont encourage my non-sense!

Tbh some of these rattles I cant even identify where they are coming from exactly. Ive even had my girlfriend try to find them while I drive around at a particular RPM. Typically around 2500-3000 RPM i hear a super annoying one coming from what sounds somewhere near the right side speaker grill or maybe near the right side dash/door/window. But touching anywhere near where the sound is coming from (even the speaker grill) doesnt stop it.

So I wonder if its coming from inside the dash?

By that time Im on the freeway and then its gone. Maddening!

To be fair, Im sure it could be worse. Im sensitive to shit like this. Its like listening to my girl smack when she eats her food. At least I can tell her to knock it off! Nicely of course

Also, apologies if I hijacked this thread in anyway.

2500-3000 rpm made me shudder a bit. Is this video relevant?



If so, maybe it will ease your anxiety to know that it's very common (some would argue universal), inherent to the platform, and there is no known fix (aside from an aftermarket turbo).

My personal situation was I kinda figured this was what was happening with my car but made the mistake of bringing it to the dealer. 2 separate trips and 4 overnight stays with the dealer just for me to drive with their "master tech" to tell him what the noise was.

Bonus: Since said dealer visit(s) I've found several broken clips from interior trim panels and the traction control button was left unplugged. So NOW I have a series of rattles that didn't exist before they touched it.

The fact I'm still with this car is a testament to my bond with it.

As for the noise, if your situation does match the description of the wastegate being the culprit, for me it was a lot easier to ignore once I knew nothing was "wrong". It still irritates me from time to time (mine is particularly pronounced), but I just suppress it right along with the rest of my childhood trauma (it's probably comfortably situated next to the memory of Optimus Prime dying in the '86 Transformers movie).

Thread has been hijacked long ago but it's ok, it's an old thread.

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