Head to head comparison: Civic Type R vs. Integra Type S (Throttle House review)

[optronix]

I wholeheartedly agree, and they'll have to ban me to keep me going to the CTR boards. I already am getting value; I had no idea there was a willwoood aftermarket clutch cylinder that improves clutch feel. I will def have to look into that!

People are definitely intentionally spouting off about how much they prefer one or the other though. Hopefully it's temporary and things settle into like a "cayman vs boxster" situation. Not entirely apples to apples but kind of. What's relevant to one is very relevant to the other. Glad the forums are split but IMO there's nothing at all wrong with cross-pollination of the knowledge base, unless it's trolling.

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[grahm]

I like both cars but if I was getting one for the track I’d definitely get the CTR — just for the better gauge cluster, shift lights, and seats. It’s an easy switch to the ITS ADS module if you want a slightly more compliant ride.

For a daily, I think either at MSRP is a fine choice. Perfect for me would be the CTR with heated seats at MSRP, but that’s not a thing. But if I could get a CTR at MSRP I’d sort out the exhaust and add the ITS ADS module and be loving life.

I do agree with TH that both are too expensive and the only reason they can charge those prices is the lack of manual transmission competition. Driving the ITS — it does not feel like a $50K car. But there’s nothing else (besides the CTR) that has the exact combo of practical hatchback + great manual + hopefully OK reliability.

 

[BlackCTR]

I could have easily bought a CTR. I had Honda Dealerships calling me from all over. Was even offered MSRP at one point. The new one just doesn't fit me personally. I'm happy with my choice.

 

[optronix]

I do agree with TH that both are too expensive and the only reason they can charge those prices is the lack of manual transmission competition. Driving the ITS — it does not feel like a $50K car. But there’s nothing else (besides the CTR) that has the exact combo of practical hatchback + great manual + hopefully OK reliability.

I disagree. By that logic an RS3 doesn't feel like a $70k car. I know they made some improvements (not universally) for the interior in '22 or whenever the refresh was, but I owned an S3 for 3 years and while I loved the car, I didn't love the interior. I honestly couldn't tell if it was real leather they used (maybe for the seats), and it had a rubber dash. Hell, my RS5 had a rubber dash... it's well thought out but so is the Integra interior. I don't like the new layout for the shifter "thing"; the old "fake shift lever" was great. The integrated screen is nice, but it has more piano black than the Integra. Ride quality in the Integra is on par, inputs are far better, stereo is better. I've said already the RS3 engine is master class, great if you think you need all-wheel drive, and I guess they made improvements to the handling, so there's your $20k price premium right there. I'd argue the RS3 is still not a true "driver's car" though, Audi still engineers their cars to actually intentionally enhance driver isolation, where Honda/Acura's focus is to refine inputs being fed to the driver. I loved putting around town in my S3 and RS5, but it turned into an actual chore to drive it on a backroad. I fell out of love with the RS5 after the first true "drive" I took it on. I'm sure I'd do the same for an RS3 so I removed it from contention.

All this to say I don't think the RS3 is not worth $70k, but if it is, the Integra is definitely worth $50k.

The Integra is fine, it's priced fine. "Adjusting for inflation" is garbage; EVERYTHING costs more now. It's not just inflation- cars are expensive. My mom just paid $35k for a used Explorer, and felt like she got a deal. What's a Tacoma go for these days? At least for your $50k you get a car that looks and drives great, and can stand up to track use with little more than some minor attention paid to brakes. If that's not your thing, AND you can live without a manual, then yeah I guess then it would be a tough sell at any price.

 

[ZeroGSR]

It's funny, how come no one hates on the Morizo GR like this? I mean it's over $52K, is ultra limited with no backseat and to put it nicely is the definition of 5hitbox, and yet the FL5 is still faster on the track. IMO, the CTR and ITS bring far more value to the table than the GR. Sure it has AWD, but it's not rear biased so I have no interest. At least the new MQBs have the trick rear diff. It's still cheating, but it's something.

 

[grahm]

I disagree. By that logic an RS3 doesn't feel like a $70k car. I know they made some improvements (not universally) for the interior in '22 or whenever the refresh was, but I owned an S3 for 3 years and while I loved the car, I didn't love the interior. I honestly couldn't tell if it was real leather they used (maybe for the seats), and it had a rubber dash. Hell, my RS5 had a rubber dash... it's well thought out but so is the Integra interior. I don't like the new layout for the shifter "thing"; the old "fake shift lever" was great. The integrated screen is nice, but it has more piano black than the Integra. Ride quality in the Integra is on par, inputs are far better, stereo is better. I've said already the RS3 engine is master class, great if you think you need all-wheel drive, and I guess they made improvements to the handling, so there's your $20k price premium right there. I'd argue the RS3 is still not a true "driver's car" though, Audi still engineers their cars to actually intentionally enhance driver isolation, where Honda/Acura's focus is to refine inputs being fed to the driver. I loved putting around town in my S3 and RS5, but it turned into an actual chore to drive it on a backroad. I fell out of love with the RS5 after the first true "drive" I took it on. I'm sure I'd do the same for an RS3 so I removed it from contention.

All this to say I don't think the RS3 is not worth $70k, but if it is, the Integra is definitely worth $50k.

The Integra is fine, it's priced fine. "Adjusting for inflation" is garbage; EVERYTHING costs more now. It's not just inflation- cars are expensive. My mom just paid $35k for a used Explorer, and felt like she got a deal. What's a Tacoma go for these days? At least for your $50k you get a car that looks and drives great, and can stand up to track use with little more than some minor attention paid to brakes. If that's not your thing, AND you can live without a manual, then yeah I guess then it would be a tough sell at any price.

Idk, I like all of these cars: the ITS, the CTR, the GRC, and my RS3. I'm not a brand or model loyalist and before this I owned an Elantra N (and before that a Fiesta ST, and before that a Mazdaspeed3). Personally, if the Elantra N came in a hatch or wagon and was still under $40K, I would not even consider the CTR or ITS — I think that's why I don't see them as feeling worth $50K. The driving dynamics, refinement, and fun of an Elantra N are so dang close, and in some areas better. But I do think both the ITS and CTR are great cars — and in our current time they have the rare combo of manual transmission + hatchback, so they can command that premium. I'd love to pick one up someday. I'm hoping the ITS starts selling for under MSRP eventually.

Also, no offense but the new RS3 is not the same as an S3 or RS5! It's not perfect (my Elantra N had better steering feel) but it is absolutely a "driver's car".

 

[VarmintCong]

It's funny, how come no one hates on the Morizo GR like this? I mean it's over $52K, is ultra limited with no backseat and to put it nicely is the definition of 5hitbox, and yet the FL5 is still faster on the track. IMO, the CTR and ITS bring far more value to the table than the GR. Sure it has AWD, but it's not rear biased so I have no interest. At least the new MQBs have the trick rear diff. It's still cheating, but it's something.

I think the GRC is definitely rear biased (70/30) but they designed the suspension so it won’t oversteer anyway. I suppose you could fix that aftermarket but I don’t want to mess with that.

It’s a strange choice that hopefully Toyota will fix in the future. Why have a 70/30 mode if it behaves worse than 50/50?

 

[VarmintCong]

The reason people say the ITS doesn’t feel like $52k is cause it’s missing features that are on basic Civics.

 

[ZeroGSR]

I think the GRC is definitely rear biased (70/30) but they designed the suspension so it won’t oversteer anyway. I suppose you could fix that aftermarket but I don’t want to mess with that.

It’s a strange choice that hopefully Toyota will fix in the future. Why have a 70/30 mode if it behaves worse than 50/50?

Guess I should have said behaves rear biased LOL. Even the new MQBs can rotate due to Haldex trickery.

 

[ElpacoSV]

I've been waiting since embargo day for Throttle House to weigh in. They were the last piece of my personal YouTube data collection process to fully assess a car's "true enthusiast worth". They're definitely one of my favorite channels and I value their opinions dearly- but don't necessarily agree all the time.



Yeah I would like to see it too but Nürburgring makes no sense in this car, especially considering the marketing.

As I've maintained since before driving impressions embargoes were lifted, the only perceivable difference to me from a track capabilities perspective are the seats.

I noticed the comment above about the springs being a different part number, and that is interesting- but every publication including what came from Acura insists that the spring rates, roll bars, all the hardware is the same as the Type R. Weight virtually the same- ~40lbs comes down to different drivers. My brother driving a Type R and me in an ITS would give me an advantage in weight lol (I'm allowed to fat shame if he's my brother). Power has been proven time and again to be an advantage to the ITS... any instrumented test that suggests the Type R is somehow faster could easily attributed to different test conditions, or bad launches. It's hard to launch a FWD car, especially with high horsepower. That will be a consistent theme with these cars, which is why I NEVER EVER was interested in drag racing front-wheel drive cars. A fool's errand... although I will have to learn how to launch this car effectively because it is important to get a good start in autocross. ?

Thomas pretty much confirms my take, despite his best efforts to convince us otherwise. He repeatedly states "but the Type R is better suited to the track", but doesn't substantiate that and then goes on to talk about how badly he was jostled around in the Type R on their track. Which brings me to another point. I think I did a good job articulating this in another thread so I'll quote myself here:



I think the ITS actually has an advantage on Throttle House's track, which looks like something you'd see in a documentary of abandoned cold-war era Soviet military bases.

I just LOVE what this video is doing to the FL5 guys now. It's official, those guys drive me nuts. There's no reason for them to be so salty- oh, besides the fact that in their own minds they've convinced themselves the CTR is god's gift to the automotive industry because it has a numbered plate on the dash and they paid $15k ADM- but seriously, the incessant bickering and nonsense about how "special" the CTR is that the ITS is not has finally worn me down.

So to have Throttle House come in with the exact same lap time, after a punishing drag race from both a dig and a roll vs an FL5 (with an aftermarket exhaust... ) was like, the perfect outcome. It should be widely accepted that both cars are equal and it comes down to a matter of individual preference. There is no "superior". It is coke vs pepsi. Two sides of the same coin. People just have to convince themselves and by proxy, everyone they have an opportunity to communicate with that they made the right decision. It's embarrassing.

Agree with you...I'm getting bored of reading the same analysis and the human need to create "clans"...us vs them as if variations ar not acceptable...if everyone liked the same things life would be boring.

 

[optronix]

Idk, I like all of these cars: the ITS, the CTR, the GRC, and my RS3. I'm not a brand or model loyalist and before this I owned an Elantra N (and before that a Fiesta ST, and before that a Mazdaspeed3). Personally, if the Elantra N came in a hatch or wagon and was still under $40K, I would not even consider the CTR or ITS — I think that's why I don't see them as feeling worth $50K. The driving dynamics, refinement, and fun of an Elantra N are so dang close, and in some areas better. But I do think both the ITS and CTR are great cars — and in our current time they have the rare combo of manual transmission + hatchback, so they can command that premium. I'd love to pick one up someday. I'm hoping the ITS starts selling for under MSRP eventually.

Also, no offense but the new RS3 is not the same as an S3 or RS5! It's not perfect (my Elantra N had better steering feel) but it is absolutely a "driver's car".

If you say so. The RS5 was supposed to slot above the RS3 in Audi’s echelon. It was great in so many ways but it wasn’t a sports car/driver’s car so it left me wanting.

The S3 was great too for the role it served, which was fun daily driver I didn’t mind getting stuck in traffic with. I paired it with a 981 Boxster GTS and it was bliss having those two cars. But I couldn’t deal with it as my only car, and I can’t imagine even with that engine I wouldn’t still feel like something was missing. I’m not the only one, there’s a pretty good YouTube review out there where someone preferred the Type R in pretty much every category over the RS3. Maybe the transmission has something to with that. I still like Audis, but I can’t imagine getting one as a do-it-all car ever again. Best daily you could ask for though, and plenty fast. Just not what I’m looking for, from a brand philosophy perspective.

I would never consider the Elantra. Just.. No. I’ll leave it at that.

The reason people say the ITS doesn’t feel like $52k is cause it’s missing features that are on basic Civics.

Ok.

if tilting mirrors and rear usb ports are that important, then by all means there are plenty of other options for $50k.

 

[VtecBuddy]

It's funny, how come no one hates on the Morizo GR like this?

I mean it’s not really a normal production car, it’s a special edition of 200 units a year. The actual GRC that everyone is gonna buy starts at 37k.

 

[VarmintCong]

if tilting mirrors and rear usb ports are that important, then by all means there are plenty of other options for $50k.

I'm most disappointed about the lack of rear armrest. My kids use that daily.

 

[optronix]

I'm most disappointed about the lack of rear armrest. My kids use that daily.

Yeah I don't think I'd be considering this car if I had kids in the backseat regularly. I hear you there.

 

[Integra23]

Yeah I don't think I'd be considering this car if I had kids in the backseat regularly. I hear you there.

I have 3 so need to do a seat swap.

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