Advice on tuner

[dpm7471]

I have been doing some reading on the Hondata, Ktuner, and Cobb tuners. I would like to hear some input from those who have used them and whether u like them or not

Is it ok to start with the tune or is it advisable to start with something else prior to the tune? Is it necessary to add anything else at the time of the tune?

Have you had any issues with the car since your Install?

Thanks in advance

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[Dvs1270]

It is advised to have your mods installed at the time of flashing a tune. I submitted my mod list to Phearable & flashed the tune the day of my last engine install.
Prior, I went to a Hondata jailbreak event to get my ecu unlocked, bought my Flashpro, & had a base off-the-shelf tune installed.
I am on a revised Phearable Stage 2 tune & have had no issues.
I installed all of my mods & I only have a downpipe left which will be professionally installed due to the bolt snap possibilities.
With my: PRL tube & fin intercooler, inlet, intake, HPS charge pipes, & Apexi full exhaust the car is very lively, traction is controlled well, & the rev hang is almost gone.

 

[bisquick]

Hardware first then software. Off the shelf tunes will get you 85% of the way there. A custom tune from a reputable tuner will maximize the output.

I have Hondata and have been more than happy with it, especially after getting the Hondata app to monitor levels. I got a custom tune with DRob at IMW; highly recommend.

 

[Xelloss]

I have been doing some reading on the Hondata, Ktuner, and Cobb tuners. I would like to hear some input from those who have used them and whether u like them or not

Is it ok to start with the tune or is it advisable to start with something else prior to the tune? Is it necessary to add anything else at the time of the tune?

Have you had any issues with the car since your Install?

Thanks in advance

So I haven't tuned my ITS, but since it sounds like you're new to it will share some basic insights I picked up in by Subie days. More general basic tuning things, than specific to ITS/CTR so can't help much on which specific ITS route but some things to keep in mind for general mod theory.

Specifically on "Is it ok to start with the tune or is it advisable to start with something else prior to the tune? Is it necessary to add anything else at the time of the tune?"

As Dsv1270 noted, he got his tune done when he installed parts and its advised - and I will add *strongly advised, and heres why.

In basic terms, there are tunes you can do on a stock car and it will be fine. What you don't ever want to do, is replace key parts in the car without doing a tune to integrate those parts before driving it. As far as which parts - anything that touches or changes any pressure or flow or air or fluids in or out from the engine. Especially air intake, which is the most common - you change the air flow into engine out of OEM spec, you need a tune so the ECU "knows" the new spec. Otherwise you can get serious problems, with air/fuel ratio being out of balance which in mild cases tanks performance and can easily lead to both long term and even immediate catastrophic failures in the worst case.

Also need tune if you get a downpipe upgrade, and the exhaust back pressure changes. Basically anything, as mentioned that impacts any flow of pretty much anything will need a tune to both get the expected performance upgrade and maintain the longevity of the engine components.

Its more than possible to have success being DIY - just be aware any prospective future buyers won't necessarily have faith you didn't screw it up even if in reality you did everything right.

For ITS, I suspect you will have to get parts to see much gain. And not just a couple parts in order to keep things in balance. For a base OTS tune w/o mods, maybe you get a few HP but biggest difference would probably be changling throttle response. I doubt there is (and from reading other peoples testimonies seems to be case) much headroom on stock ITS for big power increase.

In Subie-land though the stock bhp is ~270ish its basically tuned the way it is OEM to maintain some semblance of gas mileage. The stock intake system is good for ~330hp bhp, and you can get over 300bhp easy just with an OTS tune for 93 octane. Add in a downpipe and can get ~330+ w/o even fiddling with intake or fuel pumps, etc - at the cost of gas mileage. Basically "tuning the EPA out of the car" as I call it. This setup is IMO as stable/solid as OEM stock, because its just improving exhaust and setting engine to tune optimum for performance w/o considering fuel economy standards. The various engine parts are still "in sync" so to speak, especially the air intake/flow/ecu.


However this is basically the power range the ITS already sits at. When factoring that the FA20 (which I'm most familiar with) isn't as efficient as K20C engine and Subies have AWD (and the extra mechanical loss that brings) to keep the fuel economy/EPA rating/etc from tanking they need OEM tune to account for that - although their customers would buy a 16mpg car, its not possible for them to sell one for regulatory reasons.

Or put differently, though you have surely heard some cars achieve really high safe gains from basic off the shelf tunes and minimal parts - this doesn't appear to be the case with CTR/ITS and thats why. (more efficient + less drivetrain loss = more power while maintaining regulatorily sufficient mpg compared to some other cars)

However that also gives ITS/CTR less headroom on what it can achieve with mass-market OEM parts. Another way to think of it, is to look at which different parts that people buy together and the cost. Taking Dvs1270 example, the most expensive thing on his list is the intercooler upgrade. And most ITS modders I've seen or talked to, have done similar. The air intake is the cheapest part really, and an intake+tune will let you boost power a lot - but I would argue the upgraded intercooler and charge pipe are the key upgrades there. Because to really raise power sensibly you need to improve thermals.

Or Tldr;

You can tune a car w/o mods, but probably won't get much on ITS due there not being as much fuel economy headroom as others and also thermal considerations. Mostly throttle reponse changes.

Never drive a car with key mods installed w/o a tune, or you can see major problems and will certainly not see major performance. Cat-back exhaust and cooling upgrades are afaik about all you can get away with safely w/o tune to match.

Theres more to performance and engine longevity than the minimum parts required to hit a power number. Think of engine as a whole, and overall performance when planning upgrades.

Anyhow, sorry I was bored and started typing.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I went with Cobb and jst performance for my tune.

Why Cobb? You get a device you can view logs on directly. You can scan and clear codes. Tune swaps are fast and easy. It's a reliable and polished product that doesn't rely on external devices like laptops. This was particularly important for me for track use because a flying laptop is super dangerous.

Why jst? Great guy, great tune, and if you buy from him he will retune as many times as you want for hardware changes.

I'd recommend the tune before hardware. Make ONE CHANGE AT A TIME whenever doing anything. That keeps variability and weird/sporadic issues down. A stage 1 tune already gets the car into very dangerous speeds quickly and will be roughly 360-390 crank hp.

I've proved out on my car that turbo insulation and intake path heat reflection is all that's necessary for very hard use and keeping timing/iat in check at stage 1 levels. This on track full tilt for 20-25mins at a time. The car makes a decent amount more power than stock and way more torque than stock.

Intake and exhaust won't change power very much, if at all. They're noise makers. Intercoolers don't add power, they're just heat exchangers and should be sized appropriately to the heat generated. Obviously reducing heat by tuning, heat reflection, and insulation drops the heat it takes in so it's more efficient. Just watch out for oversized Intercoolers for your power level because they just add lag and weight over what you need. Worst case, you're removing air guides and blocking more air to the rest of the cooling stack so you lose efficiency and displace the heat elsewhere.

Find a tuner first, and talk to the tuner about what you're trying to do. They can advise you on hardware and what they'll support. That puts the responsibility in their hands as well, so they can't throw up their hands if you have issues.

 

[dpm7471]

I spoke with a tune shop here locally and they had suggested the Cobb ECU tuner along with a Cobb cold air intake, which is their stage one plus red line is what they call it. pretty significant gain in horsepower and torque with this stage one plus package.

Does anyone have experience with this tune and air intake combination?

 

[UWU-mancer]

Jst have been tuning a bunch of different platforms for about two decades. They know what they’re doing. For sure

I agree, stock intake and exhaust are good enough to where there are barely any gains when you upgrade them. The days of gaining 15whp from an intake are gone

intercooler, if you don’t tune to take advantage of a larger intercooler, no gains at all except great repeatable performance. Especially for folks that track and auto x.

I myself went with the hondata. In about three years time I’ll need to decide if I’m swapping my car for something else or if I’ll be building the motor (lightly). If I build I’ll be going with cams, headwork, mhi turbo (or non plus kuro), springs for 8k rpm, rods, head gasket and studs plus fueling. Just want to aim for 400wtq at 8k rpm with low boost but want a turbo that won’t fall flat on its face before 8k rpm and transient response is important to me. The ricer in me wants to hear a more audible vtec crack too

because of this. Hondata was the better choice at the time since the software has more maps it can alter to accommodate my possible build. I had no idea the company who owned Cobb was buying Hondata a few months later.

I think the Hondata tables will eventually find their way in cobbs software. Inevitably. So what are your plans for the car? Go from there. If you’re gonna crack the motor open. Hondata can net you a better (almost) “standalone” type experience as of today. While the Cobb is just super convenient since it supports Mac, and the standalone accessport can log easily and show U cute numbers that will drive up your anxiety

 

[dpm7471]

Is JST a company? Which one as it looks like there are 2 different?

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