'09 TL Wheels fit! Winter Setup

[jugauthi]

Oh no!

Just admit you put me on the ignore list because I didn't like your clutch mod idea. Don't dress it up.

To me, a "useful" post is not defined as strapping on ancient wheels from another vehicle "that worked on my A spec". What's to derail here? If you want to put 8" wheels on a car that came with 9.5" wheels, I'm not here to stop you.

But I am here to ask you simply WHY. Clearly you people having a hard time with that, but don't let me stop you from smashing that ignore button and perpetuating your echo chamber!

I even offered a perfectly viable alternative of using another set of OEM wheels, so you can maybe enjoy a little bit of the reason you supposedly bought the car in the winter months. But don't let logic interfere with your reasons for wanting 8" wheels!

One thing I'll note since becoming a member of this forum.. Wheels are a bit of a concern as to what will and won't fit properly with clearances or spacers. I, personally, appreciate the conversation about what people have tried. This is my first year with my ITS and winter is coming up soon (Wisconsin) and I'm going to have to go down this path of a winter wheel/tire setup as well. The more I hear about everyone's attempts helps me considerably!

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[optronix]

One thing I'll not since becoming a member of this forum.. Wheels are a bit of a concern as to what will and won't fit properly with clearances or spacers. I, personally, appreciate the conversation about what people have tried. This is my first year with my ITS and winter is coming up soon (Wisconsin) and I'm going to have to go down this path of a winter wheel/tire setup as well. The more I hear about everyone's attempts helps me considerably!

And conversation is fine, I'm just always left wondering why some people think they're not allowed to be challenged in their way of thinking without instantly feeling defensive or threatened.

Skipping straight to ignore is the most pathetic answer I can think of, rather than just defend your damn position. What a JOKE.

I'm still waiting for literally ANY actual benefit switching to 8" wheels will yield. All I can think of are net-negatives, and I could care less what anyone wants to say about their use case. The kid who ignored me says he bought his car to transport his dog- sure, cool, I did too. That doesn't mean the dog is in the car all the time. I bought this car because of its handling characteristics, which would very clearly be severely compromised switching to an 8" wheel.

I just see absolutely no sense in that when it's a perfectly viable option to buy another set of OEM wheels on the cheap and put all-seasons or winters on them... or even just simply swap the tires for the winter months, which would be even cheaper than buying another set of wheels. Sure there's drawbacks to that approach too but I have a set of all-seasons strapped to my OEM wheels and while it's compromised vs the summer tires, I just feel like the entire character of the car would be changed by stripping away 1.5" per corner worth of contact patch (not to mention possible fitment issues), and I've just been asking for an explanation of why anyone would actually WANT this, this whole time.

Still waiting.

 

[Spart]

Hey thats a good point! I definitely want to keep the hub centric feature. Thanks for the link.

I was initially thinking about 5 mm, because in my area during winter, they lay small rocks on the roads to improve traction in the snow and I wouldn't want a small rock to get stuck between the wheel and the caliper.

Do you have a picture of the BBS SR on your car? And do you also have that as a winter setup?

I don't yet, I think I have a picture of the wheel itself mocked up but no tire mounted. They look good, but honestly I think those TL wheels look pretty good, too.

The whole reason I went with BBS SR is that they are OEM quality. A lot of the cheap aftermarket wheels in the same size range, you kind of get what you pay for. The TL wheels meet that standard, too. They'll just be more durable and you won't have any plastic hub-centric rings getting lost. The BBS SR do have hub-centric rings, but they have a neat proprietary retention method.

They'll be going on in November and I'll take pics then.

 

[Spart]

I was initially thinking about 5 mm, because in my area during winter, they lay small rocks on the roads to improve traction in the snow and I wouldn't want a small rock to get stuck between the wheel and the caliper.

That seller has rings in 2mm, 3mm, 4mm, and 5mm. Link. Go with the least amount you think you can get away with, or go with a much thicker spacer that has it's own hub centric ring machined in.

I personally won't use a 5mm-6mm spacer ever again. Caused me vibration issues from not properly locating the wheel in the past.

 

[MoppyChoppy]

Oh no!

Just admit you put me on the ignore list because I didn't like your clutch mod idea. Don't dress it up.

To me, a "useful" post is not defined as strapping on ancient wheels from another vehicle "that worked on my A spec". What's to derail here? If you want to put 8" wheels on a car that came with 9.5" wheels, I'm not here to stop you.

But I am here to ask you simply WHY. Clearly you people having a hard time with that, but don't let me stop you from smashing that ignore button and perpetuating your echo chamber!

I even offered a perfectly viable alternative of using another set of OEM wheels, so you can maybe enjoy a little bit of the reason you supposedly bought the car in the winter months. But don't let logic interfere with your reasons for wanting 8" wheels!

Hi Optronix,

I think where it derailed is, you fail to understand that this setup is only for winter and not for performance targets.

So allow me to explain WHY I chose to run this setup and WHY it might be useful to some.
I did not just slap on ancient wheels and call it a day.

1st point

I used my A Spec as a reference, as they were roughly the same weight. So in terms of vehicle dynamics, if we ignore the powertrain difference, they should behave roughly the same.

2nd point

I had a 2018 Subaru STI, which was heavier and had roughly the same power as the ITS, but AWD. And I was running on 18x8.5 with 245 tires. It worked, but a friend of mine who had the same car, was running on 17x8, which allowed him to run slimmer but taller tires. He had much better traction all around, straight off the line, in corners and in braking (most important during winter).

I won't deep dive into this topic, but look at rally cars and people who enjoy spirited driving on snow. The general consensus is to decrease the width and have a higher wall section and bigger treads so you can dig into snow easily.

In terms of ground clearance, the ITS and the STI both are identical, which I agree, is not ideal for winter conditions.

3rd point

The 19x9.5 OEM Wheels are a viable option, but I wouldn't say perfect. As explained in point 2. And the logic here is that the 18x8 on slimmer winter tires would actually perform better than the OEMs, which would allow me to ''enjoy a little bit of the reason you supposedly bought the car in the winter months''.

4th point

To be quite honest, as it is my daily, I wouldn't even enjoy it the car at its fullest during winter simply because its a FWD car. Running on 19s won't make me appreciate the car's performance more, not even the 18s. The 18s will simply make it less handicapped during winter, let's say it like that.

5th point

There is literally no incentive in running 19s for winter as the tires would just be a lot more expensive and for literally no gains on winter performance. Plus, I would have to remove the tires and re-install tires every season, which is just trouble.

In a nutshell

I run 18x8 OEM Wheels, because from my experience, the OEM wheels are better suited than most aftermarket wheels for shitty, rocky and salty roads. The 18s also performs better in winter on similar cars in terms of weight and tire size.

I think this might be useful to some that are looking to go in this direction with a cost effective solution.

 

[Spart]

Brother I respect the explanation but you're not going to get anywhere, he just wants to be right, and engaging him will just make this thread harder to read for the next guy trying to figure this stuff out.

What tires size do you intend to run? Some guys go for a taller tire to get more ground clearance at the expense of the speedometer being off. This isn't my primary winter vehicle, so I went with OEM tire diameter so as to not affect my speedo.

The OEM Michelin PS4S tires are 822 revs/mile and the speedo is really dead on. Such a breath of fresh air coming from a BMW product.

The two tires I was looking at were 235/40R18 Blizzak WS90s at 820 revs/mile, and 225/40R18 Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5's at 826 revs/mile. I've been running Blizzaks for years, and decided to give the Nokians a try as they are very highly regarded. They were $50/tire more than the Blizzaks, we'll see if they provide that value.

 

[MoppyChoppy]

I don't yet, I think I have a picture of the wheel itself mocked up but no tire mounted. They look good, but honestly I think those TL wheels look pretty good, too.

The whole reason I went with BBS SR is that they are OEM quality. A lot of the cheap aftermarket wheels in the same size range, you kind of get what you pay for. The TL wheels meet that standard, too. They'll just be more durable and you won't have any plastic hub-centric rings getting lost. The BBS SR do have hub-centric rings, but they have a neat proprietary retention method.

They'll be going on in November and I'll take pics then.

You're right! BBS is a reputable wheel brand that follows certifications and testing methods defined by TUV.

OEM wheels are usually better than aftermarket wheels because they have extensive testing and they have test on cars in the real world and all over the world. For example, an automotive engineer once explained this to me : if they design a wheel, they have to make sure that it's adequate for all the markets, from the rough winter of north Canada to the extreme desert heat and sand of Saudi Arabia. Same goes for road conditions, it'll go from the Autobanh perfect smooth asphalt to pebbles and tree branches of an unfinished road path to a small cottage.

Aftermarket brands don't have ressources to test that, so they are usually purposed built. Track wheels are light and resilient, but not made for offroad capabilities. You get the point.

I'll be waiting for pictures of your setup! I almost bought a set of SRs at one point so I'm curious!

 

[MoppyChoppy]

Brother I respect the explanation but you're not going to get anywhere, he just wants to be right, and engaging him will just make this thread harder to read for the next guy trying to figure this stuff out.

What tires size do you intend to run? Some guys go for a taller tire to get more ground clearance at the expense of the speedometer being off. This isn't my primary winter vehicle, so I went with OEM tire diameter so as to not affect my speedo.

The OEM Michelin PS4S tires are 822 revs/mile and the speedo is really dead on. Such a breath of fresh air coming from a BMW product.

The two tires I was looking at were 235/40R18 Blizzak WS90s at 820 revs/mile, and 225/40R18 Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5's at 826 revs/mile. I've been running Blizzaks for years, and decided to give the Nokians a try as they are very highly regarded. They were $50/tire more than the Blizzaks, we'll see if they provide that value.

Haha I don't mind a friendly conversation.

I plan to run 235/40/18 Blizzaks also!

I had Nokian Hakkapeliitta 9 on my STI in 245/40/18.

The Nokians are exceptional for severe winter conditions and they last.

But when there was no snow or ice on the road, and they were in contact with the pavement....jessssuuuuusssss, they were so noisy. When I sold the car, I transferred the tires onto my cheap daily, which is the car my girlfriend uses everyday now. She couldn't tolerate it so we bought quieter tires.

 

[Spart]

Haha I don't mind a friendly conversation.

I plan to run 235/40/18 Blizzaks also!

I had Nokian Hakkapeliitta 9 on my STI in 245/40/18.

The Nokians are exceptional for severe winter conditions and they last.

But when there was no snow or ice on the road, and they were in contact with the pavement....jessssuuuuusssss, they were so noisy. When I sold the car, I transferred the tires onto my cheap daily, which is the car my girlfriend uses everyday now. She couldn't tolerate it so we bought quieter tires.

Interesting, the Hakkapeliitta R5's are specifically marketed for sound. Maybe that's why? I think there's even something about it on the tire sticker.

My Blizzaks have always been quieter than whatever summer tires I've been running.

 

[optronix]

Brother I respect the explanation but you're not going to get anywhere, he just wants to be right, and engaging him will just make this thread harder to read for the next guy trying to figure this stuff out.

What absolute chickenshit nonsense. Coming into a forum with 20-something posts with shit like this? Who does that?

I'd rather be the "he just wants to be right" guy than the guy who says "I'm ignoring you" but continues to reference said ignored person incessantly. Whatever point you're trying to make is gone if you can't combat a very simple question of "why". Lol.

Couldn't do it with the "clutch upgrade", can't do it here.

Now, back on topic with people who want to have a conversation, not whatever the hell "fake ignore" shit you're trying to pull.

Hi Optronix,

I think where it derailed is, you fail to understand that this setup is only for winter and not for performance targets.


3rd point

The 19x9.5 OEM Wheels are a viable option, but I wouldn't say perfect. As explained in point 2. And the logic here is that the 18x8 on slimmer winter tires would actually perform better than the OEMs, which would allow me to ''enjoy a little bit of the reason you supposedly bought the car in the winter months''.

I guess I can somewhat relate to your overall point of "it's ok because it's winter", and I guess you're in Canada (am I expected to know what Laval is?) so definitely get that you'll be driving in snow... but it all falls apart with this "3rd point" here, of suggesting you'd get more performance out of slimmer winter tires. I'm not seeing the "logic" here. Are you talking about "spirited driving on snow"? Because please try to explain the "would actually perform better than the OEMs" piece on dry pavement, or even wet- anything not actual snow, which again I'd argue if that's your actual point or not.

Am I just wrong in assuming that during the winter months you're primarily going to be driving in slush/snow conditions? If that's the case I suppose I get it... but if that's not the case I still don't see any point buried in your dissertation at all. If you're not going to be actually driving in snow the majority of the time, I think this is a bad path to take.

And yes, I'm doing it for the sake of "the next guy" who's also considering this. If you can't defend your position to a reasonable extent, then you're not doing ANYONE any favors.

And just for more context, I have been the voice of reason for other things related to this platform, like folks who just insist on getting aftermarket intercoolers for no other reason than they think they need one. Do most people listen, no- but if there's one person out there who saves however many thousands of dollars skipping an unnecessary modification then I can rest and watch the sun rise on a grateful universe.

In any case, even if I look like the idiot I'm still doing everyone a favor by convincing them that this is the route to take to get there. Wherever "there" is, with OEM wheels that aren't this car's OEM wheels or whatever...

If you feel like I'm not being reasonable, THERE'S ALWAYS THE IGNORE BUTTON.

 

[jugauthi]

What absolute chickenshit nonsense. Coming into a forum with 20-something posts with shit like this? Who does that?

I'd rather be the "he just wants to be right" guy than the guy who says "I'm ignoring you" but continues to reference said ignored person incessantly. Whatever point you're trying to make is gone if you can't combat a very simple question of "why". Lol.

Couldn't do it with the "clutch upgrade", can't do it here.

Now, back on topic with people who want to have a conversation, not whatever the hell "fake ignore" shit you're trying to pull.



I guess I can somewhat relate to your overall point of "it's ok because it's winter", and I guess you're in Canada (am I expected to know what Laval is?) so definitely get that you'll be driving in snow... but it all falls apart with this "3rd point" here, of suggesting you'd get more performance out of slimmer winter tires. I'm not seeing the "logic" here. Are you talking about "spirited driving on snow"? Because please try to explain the "would actually perform better than the OEMs" piece on dry pavement, or even wet- anything not actual snow, which again I'd argue if that's your actual point or not.

Am I just wrong in assuming that during the winter months you're primarily going to be driving in slush/snow conditions? If that's the case I suppose I get it... but if that's not the case I still don't see any point buried in your dissertation at all. If you're not going to be actually driving in snow the majority of the time, I think this is a bad path to take.

And yes, I'm doing it for the sake of "the next guy" who's also considering this. If you can't defend your position to a reasonable extent, then you're not doing ANYONE any favors.

And just for more context, I have been the voice of reason for other things related to this platform, like folks who just insist on getting aftermarket intercoolers for no other reason than they think they need one. Do most people listen, no- but if there's one person out there who saves however many thousands of dollars skipping an unnecessary modification then I can rest and watch the sun rise on a grateful universe.

In any case, even if I look like the idiot I'm still doing everyone a favor by convincing them that this is the route to take to get there. Wherever "there" is, with OEM wheels that aren't this car's OEM wheels or whatever...

If you feel like I'm not being reasonable, THERE'S ALWAYS THE IGNORE BUTTON.

Please don't take this the wrong way or negatively given the current course of this thread. How much time have you had driving in snow? I'm not a Canadian, but I grew up in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which makes me a close relative! Bigger tires will not help you here. If you want to go through mud and whatnot, cool, but snow is a different beast altogether. Watch the trucks and cars with their wide ass tires trying to get around in the snow is quite a fun watch! AWD is one thing, but FWD needs all the help it can get....at least it's better than my 84' Turbo coupe with RWD! That's how I learned to drive in the snow!

 

[optronix]

Please don't take this the wrong way or negatively given the current course of this thread. How much time have you had driving in snow? I'm not a Canadian, but I grew up in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which makes me a close relative! Bigger tires will not help you here. If you want to go through mud and whatnot, cool, but snow is a different beast altogether. Watch the trucks and cars with their wide ass tires trying to get around in the snow is quite a fun watch! AWD is one thing, but FWD needs all the help it can get....at least it's better than my 84' Turbo coupe with RWD! That's how I learned to drive in the snow!

Fair question, which is why I asked for clarification. I will shut this whole operation down if the answer is "it snows here for months on end". I can't really relate to that a whole lot...

BUT.

I'll go ahead and admit that with all this "ignore" nonsense I got distracted and didn't properly address my primary concern- even though I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in my first post- that if a car is engineered for a 9.5" wheel, I think an 8" wheel is too dramatic of a deviance for SAFETY REASONS. Say whatever you want about "performance" in whatever condition, I honestly don't really care about that, that's more of a preference thing... but people always seem to think they can out-engineer what came from the factory. I'm here to say that most of the time, that's a fallacy that ends up leading to harsh truths.

Especially if you think referencing an A spec is any source of truth. There is a DRAMATIC difference in the entire suspension and brake geometry between these two cars. Pretty important considerations, don't you think?

IMHO, the more appropriate way to address this is not "hey look I bolted the wheel on my car so I think it will work", but more "who else has run this setup and what are your impressions?" You're already worried about brake clearance without a spacer, isn't that enough to make you queasy in a car you may be putting your family in and driving at highway speeds? Am I just wrong in assuming that, that bolting on any old wheel that spins without interference is totally fine? I'm honestly asking, because "forum logic" doesn't always equate to reality. No matter how many shitty youtube videos someone has up.

 

[jugauthi]

Fair question, which is why I asked for clarification. I will shut this whole operation down if the answer is "it snows here for months on end". I can't really relate to that a whole lot...

BUT.

I'll go ahead and admit that with all this "ignore" nonsense I got distracted and didn't properly address my primary concern- even though I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in my first post- that if a car is engineered for a 9.5" wheel, I think an 8" wheel is too dramatic of a deviance for SAFETY REASONS. Say whatever you want about "performance" in whatever condition, I honestly don't really care about that, that's more of a preference thing... but people always seem to think they can out-engineer what came from the factory. I'm here to say that most of the time, that's a fallacy that ends up leading to harsh truths.

Especially if you think referencing an A spec is any source of truth. There is a DRAMATIC difference in the entire suspension and brake geometry between these two cars. Pretty important considerations, don't you think?

IMHO, the more appropriate way to address this is not "hey look I bolted the wheel on my car so I think it will work", but more "who else has run this setup and what are your impressions?" You're already worried about brake clearance without a spacer, isn't that enough to make you queasy in a car you may be putting your family in and driving at highway speeds? Am I just wrong in assuming that, that bolting on any old wheel that spins without interference is totally fine? I'm honestly asking, because "forum logic" doesn't always equate to reality. No matter how many shitty youtube videos someone has up.

I'd also add that the majority of vehicle manufacturers don't take snow into account regarding their design and implementation, the Tesla Cybertruck is an amusing example of this! I would assume that Acura also assumed that whoever is going to buy this vehicle is more than likely from a warmer area and/or is using it as their second vehicle while Garaging the Integra during the Winter. Given the fact that the Integra comes with Summer tires only and were intended to provide the most road grip possible (within a certain price point) in the Summer. The Winter configuration was clearly not in their thought process and if the vehicle was intended to be driven in the Winter as well it would have come with a completely different tire spec than the ones we see it with, leading to the skinnier tire with higher side wall conversation being reasonable in thought.

 

[ABPDE5]

I don't know that skinnier tires really perform that much better than wider ones. This test shows they make, at best, a very marginal improvement on snow / ice (and obviously they offer worse performance on dry pavement). The key is having good winter tires and driving appropriately for the conditions.

As someone who has spent their entire driving-age life in winter climates, the reasons you typically seem to see more trucks and other large vehicles with wide tires struggling in snowy conditions is less because of the width of the tires and more because:
(I) their owners typically overlook the importance of tire compound, assuming their awd systems and heavy curb weight will give them adequate performance on all season or over-worn tires;
(II) while heavy vehicles lose traction "later" than lighter ones, they are harder to bring back under control after they lose grip and often offer less communication re: available grip or the lack thereof;
(III) people who fear and / or struggle with driving in poor conditions often turn to large vehicles specifically because they want a better "winter car", assuming awd and weight will solve their problems, instead of learning how to drive appropriately.

And, yes, I've always laughed inside a little bit every time someone told me that the ONLY reason they made it into the office that morning was because they had a truck / SUV / Subaru, when I'd made it in just fine with 2 driven wheels and a sub-3k lb curb weight (or smiled to myself while passing someone in a 2+ ton behemoth stuck spinning their tires).

Blizzaks are where it's at! Given decent visibility and appropriate time / place / manner, etc., winter driving is the most fun I've ever had in a car. (And it kills me inside that I feel inclined to keep my "fun" cars off the road in the winter, for fear of corrosion d/t the absurd amounts of salt they put down... hope OP has a little bit of fun getting responsibly sideways in their ITS on occasion.)

 

[whtciv2k]

I think folks are taking this thread out of context. He stated it fits, and it fits. He stated for additional clearance he will add a spacer. He stated this is his “I don’t care” winter setup. Not even sure what there is to discuss as there was no question.

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