What mod are you looking for that isn't out yet?

[Victorofhavoc]

Guess Honda figured it didn't need vented rear rotors. I wanted to go with the Paragon BBK but even most of the Civic Type R's being raced run the stock size rear disc due to biasing. I bought a set of these figured they would add a bit of cooling over the stock rear disc...

As far as mods go I would like to see a really nice well built rear roof spoiler.

I've measured my rotor temps on track and my dba 3k rears came with heat paint for flagging it. With vcs fully off they stay within 400F well. With it on, it's bad... They'll be over 800F in paddock after a hot session, which means on track they were pushing 1200+.

So really, turning off traction control leads to slightly slower lap times but much more rear brake life. Modest compromise.

The issue I have is that as an instructor we preach leaving vcs on for newbies to prevent spins and wall/car contact, but that also comes with a caveat of telling some people they should consider reducing the system interference or they can eat a set of pads in a day. In most other cars that people come out with, there's a half step or lower setting where it won't do the skid steer maneuver but will let you still have spin prevention. We don't have that option, so for safety I can only say to keep checking their rear brakes every session.

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[slowcountry]

Interesting - in theory would a heavy duty rear sway bar counteract some of the handling loss from disabling vsa/tcs?

Have been testing my rv6 RSB at different settings, have it on the stiffest at the moment and there is some lift-off oversteer. Thinking I should go to the mid setting but love the planted feel. Any other adjustment I could make?

Factory RSB is 17mm, 150-200 lbf/in
Rv6 is 25mm, low - high settings are roughly 700, 950, and 1,350 lbf/in

 

[UWU-mancer]

I've measured my rotor temps on track and my dba 3k rears came with heat paint for flagging it. With vcs fully off they stay within 400F well. With it on, it's bad... They'll be over 800F in paddock after a hot session, which means on track they were pushing 1200+.

So really, turning off traction control leads to slightly slower lap times but much more rear brake life. Modest compromise.

The issue I have is that as an instructor we preach leaving vcs on for newbies to prevent spins and wall/car contact, but that also comes with a caveat of telling some people they should consider reducing the system interference or they can eat a set of pads in a day. In most other cars that people come out with, there's a half step or lower setting where it won't do the skid steer maneuver but will let you still have spin prevention. We don't have that option, so for safety I can only say to keep checking their rear brakes every session.

I think your 1200f estimate is spot on. Realistically by how much do you think that could drop with vented rotors?

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Interesting - in theory would a heavy duty rear sway bar counteract some of the handling loss from disabling vsa/tcs?

Have been testing my rv6 RSB at different settings, have it on the stiffest at the moment and there is some lift-off oversteer. Thinking I should go to the mid setting but love the planted feel. Any other adjustment I could make?

Factory RSB is 17mm, 150-200 lbf/in
Rv6 is 25mm, low - high settings are roughly 700, 950, and 1,350 lbf/in

Are you sure that's correct for rear factory sway rate? Seems awfully low. I would have expected closer to 750.

In theory it can a bit, but the factory system is designed to keep you rotating in the sweeping and decreasing radius corners where fwd tends to wash with maintenance or reducing throttle. Sway isn't much of a factor since you're loaded there. The system is typically coming in to counteract the street based alignment and the pitch on turn in, but sway won't change pitch technically.

The role of the sway bar is to reduce grip across the axle and the role of the vcs is to reduce wheel speed and maintain contact patch.

For you, how to proceed; get some rear tire wear in on the tire you want to run. Pull it off and inspect it. Where is it wearing? At the edges? Middle? Across evenly? Are the arrows still visible? Is the tread chunking anywhere?
Depending on how the tire looks you might need more camber, more pressure, less pressure, more bar, less bar, etc. It can change from tire to tire. Stickier tires need more camber and more spring typically.

Think of adjusting your handling from macro to micro impact change order:
Driver
Alignment
Driver
Tire
Driver
Brake pad
Driver
Spring rate
Geometry (bushings, pickup points, ball joints)
Dampening
Sway bar
Tire pressure

Based on your tire and experience level, the biggest changes to how a car handles typically come from the top half of that list. The second half starts getting into fine tuning based on wear, feedback, and driver style. You can use your tire wear as a sacrificial indicator of both habit and setup.

Once I get one more event in on my nankangs, I'll post up some photos and show what they actually look like and what that tells me about the setup. I'd love if several people can do similar and we can discuss results

I think your 1200f estimate is spot on. Realistically by how much do you think that could drop with vented rotors?

With vented I think that number would drop in half. It's a nose down car so most of the heat is happening in the front. It's the brake application that's really heating up the rears. Venting is effective for it because it has time to cool inbetween application and there's much less tire/radiant heat since the rears aren't driven.

 

[slowcountry]

That makes a lot of sense - tires are still the stock ones, brakes are upgraded, but haven't done springs or geometry.

Think best play for now would then be to drop to the mid RSB setting and upgrade the tires then assess from there.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

That makes a lot of sense - tires are still the stock ones, brakes are upgraded, but haven't done springs or geometry.

Think best play for now would then be to drop to the mid RSB setting and upgrade the tires then assess from there.

What does your wear look like on your stock tires?

Note I said spring rate, not springs. Springs will generally be detrimental to performance without other compensating factors. If you're going to up rate for track use or for a slicker tire, you'd ideally want coilovers that leave at or near factory height. Limit what's being changed so you don't chase rabbit holes.

 

[slowcountry]

What does your wear look like on your stock tires?

12k miles on these, rotated most recently at 10k.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

12k miles on these, rotated most recently at 10k.

Basically no wear on those, lol. I was expecting more worn. How many sessions have you put on them?

 

[slowcountry]

Basically no wear on those, lol. I was expecting more worn. How many sessions have you put on them?

Yeah figured it'd be hard to say much, they only have 3 decent road sessions. Closest route for it here is the Pinnacle to Little Italy route. ~24 miles round trip with 400ft elevation change, 40 mins or so spirited.

Just feel like these sidewalls roll or the tires want to let go too soon when powering through turns. Maybe the stiff RSB adds to that. Trying to build a case for upgrading tires before the stock ones wear out

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Yeah figured it'd be hard to say much, they only have 3 decent road sessions. Closest route for it here is the Pinnacle to Little Italy route. ~24 miles round trip with 400ft elevation change, 40 mins or so spirited.

Just feel like these sidewalls roll or the tires want to let go too soon when powering through turns. Maybe the stiff RSB adds to that. Trying to build a case for upgrading tires before the stock ones wear out

Squishy sidewalls will roll a lot! Sway bar will force more load to the sidewall. Makes it flex more, heat up more, lose grip at the axle. Usually that means upping air pressure which again lowers grip on the axle.

With a soft sidewall like on an all season, you want less bar and less spring rate overall for better contact.

 

[miksfield]

1. Some way to add more side bolstering to seats while still retaining heating and air bags (I bought the Bolster boost but its pretty annoying for every day.)
2. Improve steering feel even more (the only thing thats helped so far is the lower control arm bushing.)

 

[slowcountry]

Lol.. Using some AI credits to see if we can armchair engineer the vented rear rotors...

VW atlas has rear calipers with EPB that can handle 22mm rotors. I happen to have an Atlas...

Apparently would need to test the electrical resistance and draw of the oem vs the atlas caliper, and if they're similar could make a custom jumper harness to connect them. If the atlas is the donor, apparently we'd have to make a 2 piece aluminum rotor hat that fits 5x120 instead of atlas 5x112 but bolts to the atlas part. Needs 64.1mm center bore and it'd need to address axial offset. Would also need a custom mounting bracket/adapter for the caliper with correct axial alignment. And last, would probably need custom brake lines and figure out if the rear brake bias is bad.

Would people want a 305mm or something like 330mm or 340mm rotor? Maybe we can just 80% design it and send it off Lol

 

[UWU-mancer]

Lol.. Using some AI credits to see if we can armchair engineer the vented rear rotors...

VW atlas has rear calipers with EPB that can handle 22mm rotors. I happen to have an Atlas...

Apparently would need to test the electrical resistance and draw of the oem vs the atlas caliper, and if they're similar could make a custom jumper harness to connect them. If the atlas is the donor, apparently we'd have to make a 2 piece aluminum rotor hat that fits 5x120 instead of atlas 5x112 but bolts to the atlas part. Needs 64.1mm center bore and it'd need to address axial offset. Would also need a custom mounting bracket/adapter for the caliper with correct axial alignment. And last, would probably need custom brake lines and figure out if the rear brake bias is bad.

Would people want a 305mm or something like 330mm or 340mm rotor? Maybe we can just 80% design it and send it off Lol

Maybe wait for the next type r or s? If they get vented rears we can probably swap the calipers and stuff over?

 

[slowcountry]

Well that's awfully pragmatic

 

[UWU-mancer]

Sorry man. I know. Surprising coming from me

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