Throttle pedal lag

[WonderBlue]

Along these same lines, and maybe it doesn’t belong in this thread, but I just tried a fuel injector cleaner on my stock 25ITS and about halfway through the tank now noticing throttle lag. It could be my imagination, because I never really paid real close attention until after I put the fuel additive in, and started monitoring it for any performance difference. Any thoughts on “do’s or don’ts” with fuel system additives with this engine?

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[UWU-mancer]

Along these same lines, and maybe it doesn’t belong in this thread, but I just tried a fuel injector cleaner on my stock 25ITS and about halfway through the tank now noticing throttle lag. It could be my imagination, because I never really paid real close attention until after I put the fuel additive in, and started monitoring it for any performance difference. Any thoughts on “do’s or don’ts” with fuel system additives with this engine?

If you’re using top tier certified fuel. An injector cleaner in the tank shouldn’t be done any more frequently than maybe every 10k miles

if you’re using shit gas tho. Maybe do one after each oil change.

as far as the throttle lag goes. I dunno.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Along these same lines, and maybe it doesn’t belong in this thread, but I just tried a fuel injector cleaner on my stock 25ITS and about halfway through the tank now noticing throttle lag. It could be my imagination, because I never really paid real close attention until after I put the fuel additive in, and started monitoring it for any performance difference. Any thoughts on “do’s or don’ts” with fuel system additives with this engine?

Like he said above... Almost all gasoline already contains detergents. Adding other stuff to it does nothing at best and dilutes your fuel a bit at worst.

On the note of gasoline, you should avoid ethanol free fuels at all costs. Cars today are designed to run with it and ethanol free fuels can definitely make the car feel more lethargic ime.

 

[Janita1990]

motor mount helping with throttle response is interesting - wouldnt that be more of a drivetrain feel than actual pedal lag though? the ecu throttle mapping is probably the real bottleneck, not engine movement. but maybe im missing something, curious what you noticed specifically

 

[UWU-mancer]

motor mount helping with throttle response is interesting - wouldnt that be more of a drivetrain feel than actual pedal lag though? the ecu throttle mapping is probably the real bottleneck, not engine movement. but maybe im missing something, curious what you noticed specifically

Bitch can’t twist or jerk. Especially under sudden acceleration and even under fruity ass acceleration (yall know who you are). Hence the better feeling throttle. Ultimately tuning the pedal tables is the better pay off. But some people don’t want to tamper with the ecu.

also. The model is a curve ball. A rs3/ttrs with a stiffer pendulum type mount is gonna feel way way better than a type s post trans mount. The shittier and more compliant the oem one feels the more U can gain.

 

[Berzerker]

A big thing I've noticed is not necessarily the throttle response on pedal down, but also pedal up. Maybe I'm used to just more..."expensive" stuff, but I don't remember any other manual I've driven be so lethargic when lifting off and getting ready to shift.

It seems to take more than a half a second for the engine to realize I've lifted off to cut fuel, I find the revs hanging a lot or even revving up more if I pull off the throttle quickly and get onto the clutch for trying a somewhat quicker than normal shift.

I'm not open to tuning at all since I want my warranty, but it sounds like just the throttle response computers combined with the heavy flywheels in these cars make shifting quickly just not possible, or at least easily.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

A big thing I've noticed is not necessarily the throttle response on pedal down, but also pedal up. Maybe I'm used to just more..."expensive" stuff, but I don't remember any other manual I've driven be so lethargic when lifting off and getting ready to shift.

It seems to take more than a half a second for the engine to realize I've lifted off to cut fuel, I find the revs hanging a lot or even revving up more if I pull off the throttle quickly and get onto the clutch for trying a somewhat quicker than normal shift.

I'm not open to tuning at all since I want my warranty, but it sounds like just the throttle response computers combined with the heavy flywheels in these cars make shifting quickly just not possible, or at least easily.

Have you driven a turbo Porsche in sport+ where they have antilag active?

The behavior you're describing they do to keep the throttle response up when modulating. Beyond that it's flywheel weight like you said.

Generally, if you want revs to fall faster, go to a less massive flywheel.

If you want more shift shock go to stiffer mounts and/or heavier clutches.

There are pros and cons to it all. Ultimately the makers do what they do to protect the cars and people from the cars. Used to be common before the tuned in rev hang days to see manual cars with trashed clutches or gearboxes at 30k miles because people were wanting to feel the shift shock. You'd be hard pressed to find a manual car today that can't survive 80k+ miles, even with hard use. The its has very little true rev hang. Rev it in neutral and the revs fall nearly as fast as your foot is off the throttle. In other cars with more baked in hang, you can watch the revs literally hang at the top for a full half second before they start to fall.

If you want the shift snap you have to change hardware, not just software.

 

[Berzerker]

Have you driven a turbo Porsche in sport+ where they have antilag active?

The behavior you're describing they do to keep the throttle response up when modulating. Beyond that it's flywheel weight like you said.

Generally, if you want revs to fall faster, go to a less massive flywheel.

If you want more shift shock go to stiffer mounts and/or heavier clutches.

There are pros and cons to it all. Ultimately the makers do what they do to protect the cars and people from the cars. Used to be common before the tuned in rev hang days to see manual cars with trashed clutches or gearboxes at 30k miles because people were wanting to feel the shift shock. You'd be hard pressed to find a manual car today that can't survive 80k+ miles, even with hard use. The its has very little true rev hang. Rev it in neutral and the revs fall nearly as fast as your foot is off the throttle. In other cars with more baked in hang, you can watch the revs literally hang at the top for a full half second before they start to fall.

If you want the shift snap you have to change hardware, not just software.

My last car was a Cayman GTS 4.0 and those revs dropped like a rock, but I know they famously have very light flywheels. I just wasn't expecting such a massive difference. It's nothing I'd get hung up over, just something I notice and have to adjust to.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

My last car was a Cayman GTS 4.0 and those revs dropped like a rock, but I know they famously have very light flywheels. I just wasn't expecting such a massive difference. It's nothing I'd get hung up over, just something I notice and have to adjust to.

Yeah the 4.0 is different since it's not turbo. The turbo 2.5 leaves the throttle plate partially open to keep the turbo spinning so you get a ton of rev hang and basically no engine braking. A lot of turbo cars are employing these techniques now so they don't make throttle modulation feel so rubber band like.

Agreed, you just have to adjust your driving style slightly and it becomes less of an issue. I will say, swapping between an NA car and a turbo car always takes me a few mins to adjust.

 

[Berzerker]

Yeah the 4.0 is different since it's not turbo. The turbo 2.5 leaves the throttle plate partially open to keep the turbo spinning so you get a ton of rev hang and basically no engine braking. A lot of turbo cars are employing these techniques now so they don't make throttle modulation feel so rubber band like.

Agreed, you just have to adjust your driving style slightly and it becomes less of an issue. I will say, swapping between an NA car and a turbo car always takes me a few mins to adjust.

Yeah it's a stark difference going from the ITS to my miata, both predictable but just in different ways

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