Rev Climb?

[Yato]

So my ITS is past the break in mileage and I’ve finally gone WOT a few times. Lovely experience.

However, I seem to be noticing when I shift at let’s say 5K rpm, disengage the clutch and shift, the revs will continue to climb AFTER the clutch is disengaged. It probably climbs about 500 rpm. I’ve only tested it in 2nd shifting to 3rd, as well as 3rd shifting to 4th. Happens both times.

This is the first “modern” manual car that I’ve driven…is this intended? Do you guys experience this as well? It feels very unnatural.

 

[b0nb0n]

Sounds like typical "rev hang" to me. Been a thing since drive-by-wire was introduced. It's an emissions feature. The throttle plate is left open momentarily to burn off excess fuel to my understanding. It can mostly be tuned out with a reflash. Hondata or KTuner for example.

It's worse on other cars for sure but I've experienced it a few times in the ITS. Surprisingly never while shifting at redline WOT, though.

 

[Yato]

Sounds like typical "rev hang" to me. Been a thing since drive-by-wire was introduced. It's an emissions feature. The throttle plate is left open momentarily to burn off excess fuel to my understanding. It can mostly be tuned out with a reflash. Hondata or KTuner for example.

It's worse on other cars for sure but I've experienced it a few times in the ITS. Surprisingly never while shifting at redline WOT, though.

Gotcha. So it’s essentially just rev hang.

I’ve been reading some FL5 threads about it and it seems to be more prominent if you go WOT and shift early, at like 5k. That could be why I’ve noticed it so much. I didn’t take it to redline.

 

[b0nb0n]

Gotcha. So it’s essentially just rev hang.

I’ve been reading some FL5 threads about it and it seems to be more prominent if you go WOT and shift early, at like 5k. That could be why I’ve noticed it so much. I didn’t take it to redline.

I believe that's exactly when I've experienced myself too. Entering the highway from an on ramp for example.

 

[submitaweasel]

Yes. "Rev hang" was implemented to reduce NOx emissions as far back as 2006 IIRC. The delay in throttle plate closure is what you are feeling. IMO the newer the vehicle the worse it is as emissions standards are only getting tighter.

…is this intended?

 

[glhs]

Funny, I've bought 2006 Civic (LX, stick), 2017 Civic (EX-T, stick) and now a 2024 IT, each I was the original owner of.. I also have several old school turbo cars, all stickshift from way before drive by wire and throttles optimized for emissions.

The 2006 Civic had none of this rev hang business, was light tossable, handled well but was underpowered.

When I got my 2017 EX-T it was a whole different world in terms of power but the rev hang drove me nuts, I did not know anything about it or expect it and so I had the car in for service multiple times when it was brand new, insisting this wasnt the way a stick was supposed to work, etc etc. More or less I was told this was normal, case closed. I bought a Hondata Flashpro in hopes I could tune this out and maybe it made it a little better but really couldnt get rid of it. Within the first year I just got used to it and didnt think about it again.

Now with the 2024 ITS I too am just getting through my break in and had a good few full throttle blasts and spirited driving and can say I haven't noticed anything different in terms of rev hang than what I've gotten accustomed to with the 2017.

I think in the end it doesnt end up affecting your driving or fun with the car but your ear needs to recalibrate to realize between shifts the revs arent going to drop as they would in an 80s or 90s turbo car or even in the 2006 1.8 Civic.

Let your ears recalibrate and enjoy it. And if you have to, justify getting a Flashpro by thinking it will make your rev hang better, whether it does or not it will still be fun.

 

[ChromaPop]

My modern Hyundai Veloster N had zero rev hang, I wish Acura would have not implemented it in the same way they didn't include Auto Start/Stop.

 

[Integra23]

My modern Hyundai Veloster N had zero rev hang, I wish Acura would have not implemented it in the same way they didn't include Auto Start/Stop.

Time for a tune

 

[koatic]

While I was waiting for my ITS to be built, I watched many youtube DE5 reviews and noticed that almost all of them seemed like the driver didn't know how to shift WOT as you could hear them hit the limiter and stay there for a good second before shifting..
I have been driving my EG with 97 ITR swap with a stage 3 clutch for (literally) 2 decades now so consider myself fairly competent with hard shifts.
HOWEVER, to my Suprise when I first went WOT in my ITS the same thing happened to me that happened on the videos..
The difference in the b18c mechanical throttle cable vs ECU controlled direct injection is NIGHT and DAY to me.. Mind you the instant engagement from my stage 3 clutch coupled with mechanical throttle makes my Civic seem more peppier and responsive during shifts but the ITS has noticable torque after the initial delay.. (I am not talking turbo lag) I am talking about the throttle response before the turbo even spools..
For example I am driving my civic at 3k in third and slightly blimp the throttle you can feel the car pull for a second however if I do the same thing in my ITS I don't feel near the torque even though the car has 3 times the torque of my civic.. Feels like the ECU decides (meh he didnt mean it, no extra gas for you).
So for this long story the reality is I am having to learn how to shift the ITS completely different than I treat the civic at WOT.. Civic I let up on throttle about about 40% between quick shifts as I shift.. ITS I now lift 100% off throttle a half second early and then stop back on and let the ECU do the rest.
This is a good video of foot work at play of Misha in FL5 at nurburgring.

 

[Azkyrie6]

So my ITS is past the break in mileage and I’ve finally gone WOT a few times. Lovely experience.

However, I seem to be noticing when I shift at let’s say 5K rpm, disengage the clutch and shift, the revs will continue to climb AFTER the clutch is disengaged. It probably climbs about 500 rpm. I’ve only tested it in 2nd shifting to 3rd, as well as 3rd shifting to 4th. Happens both times.

This is the first “modern” manual car that I’ve driven…is this intended? Do you guys experience this as well? It feels very unnatural.

Yes. "Rev hang" was implemented to reduce NOx emissions as far back as 2006 IIRC. The delay in throttle plate closure is what you are feeling. IMO the newer the vehicle the worse it is as emissions standards are only getting tighter.

did some digging last month and the Rev Hang is indeed a Honda design feature:

When going WOT for max acceleration older manuals has jerky shifts running up the gears. When smooth shifting is needed the driver has to wait for revs to fall. Honda designed around this with Rev-hang during hard acceleration.

ECU also programmed to close throttle slowly for emissions so it has to be removed with a tune or you’d need to delete clutch delay valve.

I’ve had to learn how to shift the way the car wants to shift instead of what I’m used to. Been solid so far.

traditionally timing is the important skill needed when upshifting and downshifting. Timing is less important for new drivers with Rev-matching and Rev Hang. For more seasoned drivers trying to shift quickly the rpm isn’t going to drop fast enough for smooth shifts, you’d certainly have jerky action. At the same time hard acceleration while smooth shifting waiting for revs to fall makes us “slow”.

Honda rev-match/hàng is supposed to alleviate that. Also helps novice drivers or those who shift slow. That’s why R+/Sport+ needs direct immediate shifting versus comfort mode with different response for less shock shifting.

You can adjust by not having the clutch pedal fully depressed to deactivate Rev-match/hang or just delete clutch delay valve all together If you like short throw quick shifts. But CTR/ITS was designed to bring people back to manual driving without advanced foot skills and precise timing. It’s truly an art form and I admire those who have mastered it

 

[submitaweasel]

did some digging last month and the Rev Hang is indeed a Honda design feature:

When going WOT for max acceleration older manuals has jerky shifts running up the gears. When smooth shifting is needed the driver has to wait for revs to fall. Honda designed around this with Rev-hang during hard acceleration.

ECU also programmed to close throttle slowly for emissions so it has to be removed with a tune or you’d need to delete clutch delay valve.

I’ve had to learn how to shift the way the car wants to shift instead of what I’m used to. Been solid so far.

traditionally timing is the important skill needed when upshifting and downshifting. Timing is less important for new drivers with Rev-matching and Rev Hang. For more seasoned drivers trying to shift quickly the rpm isn’t going to drop fast enough for smooth shifts, you’d certainly have jerky action. At the same time hard acceleration while smooth shifting waiting for revs to fall makes us “slow”.

Honda rev-match/hàng is supposed to alleviate that. Also helps novice drivers or those who shift slow. That’s why R+/Sport+ needs direct immediate shifting versus comfort mode with different response for less shock shifting.

You can adjust by not having the clutch pedal fully depressed to deactivate Rev-match/hang or just delete clutch delay valve all together If you like short throw quick shifts. But CTR/ITS was designed to bring people back to manual driving without advanced foot skills and precise timing. It’s truly an art form and I admire those who have mastered it

Ah, yes. The "feature" you never knew you needed. Honda marketing on point 10/10.