ForeverCar’s ITS Journal

[ForeverCar]

My latest musings have me puzzled by an observation.

For some reason, I find it more enjoyable to be able to go WOT for a reasonable amount of time. If the car happens to be more powerful or the conditions do not allow, same duration and acceleration can be attained with partial throttle and full rpm sweep. However, that’s less enjoyable.

This very well could be my own peculiarity though.

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[SilverRocket]

My latest musings have me puzzled by an observation.

For some reason, I find it more enjoyable to be able to go WOT for a reasonable amount of time. If the car happens to be more powerful or the conditions do not allow, same duration and acceleration can be attained with partial throttle and full rpm sweep. However, that’s less enjoyable.

This very well could be my own peculiarity though.

Many people subscribe to the concept of it's better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

Although if it's pedal to the metal action that gets you going, next car.... A 2CV Almost constant pedal to the metal action from your driveway to your destination.

 

[ForeverCar]

Many people subscribe to the concept of it's better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

Although if it's pedal to the metal action that gets you going, next car.... A 2CV Almost constant pedal to the metal action from your driveway to your destination.

Well, a certain level of acceleration is also needed. To me, ND2 Miata, GR86/BRZ, and S2000 are a little on the “too slow” side.

 

[SilverRocket]

Well, a certain level of acceleration is also needed. To me, ND2 Miata, GR86/BRZ, and S2000 are a little on the “too slow” side.

For sure. I think in this day and age, it should be considered more the search for a Goldilocks car. You don't want a beige 150hp automatic car that feels disconnected when you steer, nor do you need a 700hp, fire breathing Nürburgring destroyer.

That's the ITS for me, except the Internet keyboard warriors think it's "slow" so I'll roll with the "slow car fast".

 

[ForeverCar]

For sure. I think in this day and age, it should be considered more the search for a Goldilocks car. You don't want a beige 150hp automatic car that feels disconnected when you steer, nor do you need a 700hp, fire breathing Nürburgring destroyer.

That's the ITS for me, except the Internet keyboard warriors think it's "slow" so I'll roll with the "slow car fast".

I think it’s Engineering Explained that has a video sharing how the ITS has similar in gear acceleration compared to the M2.

it might be this one.

 

[ForeverCar]

I could not resist taking this silly photo during this morning’s fun drive.

The 992.1T is a lot of fun and can be enjoyed in a pretty broad range of conditions. I have been mainly taking it out on my fun drives. Less of a “problem” and more a realization that time truly is the most precious resource. I still enjoy driving the ITS lots but I cannot create more time. The 911T gets the pick for now.

 

[ForeverCar]

Yet another random musing.

https://www.everydaydriver.com/adventures

I am a fan of some of their videos that I have watched. Does anyone happen to know them or have been on some of the previous adventures?

 

[ForeverCar]

Back to back drives are great to pick up nuanced differences between cars. I parked the 911T and drove the ITS around for fun (and will be using it primarily for a bit).

Things that jumped out but were not as obvious previously are,

• ITS steering wheel is bigger (blocks the gauges less)
• ITS clutch travel is significantly shorter (also lighter effort)
• ITS has less road noise but a bit more engine vibration (I happen to like feeling engine vibrations to a certain extent)
• The 911T has noticeable stronger acceleration (duh)

The more subtle things I noticed,

• My 911T does not have RWS so it feels quite analog. I was surprised how much I noticed the ITS torque vectoring to tuck the car tight to your line.
• The combination of tight gear ratios, highly tuned turbo inline 4, and great sounds make up for missing power IMO for having fun on the road.
• The softer ride of the ITS combined with lower noise is more relaxing.
• Apple CarPlay is more responsive.
• Seating position of the ITS is quite a bit higher.

 

[SilverRocket]

I'm genuinely curious to know what the actual horsepower figures are. C&D has the 2024 911T at 379 HP and 330lbsft but the surprising part is the 911 is 100lbs more heavy than the ITS.

Does 60 more horsepower make that much more of a difference? If so it has me itching to consider a tune if it unlocks 400hp on the Integra.

 

[bvanlieu]

Fun thread @ForeverCar, appreciate sharing your thoughts and pics of the new toy. Great spec on the T.

I'm only 150 miles into the Type S (GS-R was my first car, from there wrenched/tracked all sorts of slow cars like it, Miata, WRX, 987 and now a 981 P car) and its pretty close to a perfect commuter/ hatch for me given what little choice there is out there.

My ITS replaces a 335d which was a gem of a diesel cruiser but despite real BMW sport suspension, can't hold a candle to the turn in of the ITS nor how it wants to just scoot around. Its good to be back in a Honda

Every car has nits and compared to the 981 GTS, the ITS clutch is too light, and the GTSs gearing is too tall for street use. GTS clutch is about perfect, shifter is good but a smidge of slop compared to ITS. If we could graft them...

Track use is a different animal, and while I think the GTS is a forever car for me (last of the normal NA cars, save the 4.0 they slapped in the 718) its really hard to enjoy it responsibly on the street....too much traffic in the north east, deer, etc...it wants to stretch its legs.

ITS fills that street fun bucket for me. its not the B18C of my youth for sure, but a modern interpretation with carplay.

I'll take that.

 

[ABPDE5]

The more subtle things I noticed,

• My 911T does not have RWS so it feels quite analog. I was surprised how much I noticed the ITS torque vectoring to tuck the car tight to your line.

Do you ever do the "pedal dance"? I have found I much more enjoy the character of the car w. VSA completely disabled via maintenance mode. The steering feedback is better, and as you pointed out, with VSA enabled, you can feel the car "correct" you.

Interesting you note the ITS seating position is quite a bit higher. It's always felt a little too high to me. I wish it was lower. I'd gladly trade my automatic seat functions for a lower seating height.

 

[optronix]

I'm genuinely curious to know what the actual horsepower figures are. C&D has the 2024 911T at 379 HP and 330lbsft but the surprising part is the 911 is 100lbs more heavy than the ITS.

Does 60 more horsepower make that much more of a difference? If so it has me itching to consider a tune if it unlocks 400hp on the Integra.

The 911T does not have 379 horsepower. I think that's a hilarious figure. The PDK version of that engine in the base 992 will hit 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and run in the 11s in the 1/4 mile, as you say weighing only 100lbs more than the ITS. Also, it's the exact same engine that's in the 992 GTS, which will hit 0-60 in 2.8, albeit with different turbos.

I'm not here to convince you not to get a tune, but I still wouldn't expect to reach 911 performance levels. The 911 is also far better equipped to handle that kind of power, whereas I'm still convinced that while the ITS is the pinnacle of FWD performance cars, there's only so far before physics will win and the front tires will be overwhelmed.

 

[QUIKAG]

Here's my 992 GTS bone stock accel video I did a while back:



Ain't no ITS going to do that kind of acceleration anytime soon. That said, I just love driving the ITS. It hits such a sweet spot for comfort, fun, sound, acceleration, braking, handling, good rear seat room, etc. I think I'm going to keep it a while and that's saying something since I'm a bit of a serial car rotator.

 

[SilverRocket]

The 911T does not have 379 horsepower. I think that's a hilarious figure. The PDK version of that engine in the base 992 will hit 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and run in the 11s in the 1/4 mile, as you say weighing only 100lbs more than the ITS. Also, it's the exact same engine that's in the 992 GTS, which will hit 0-60 in 2.8, albeit with different turbos.

I'm not here to convince you not to get a tune, but I still wouldn't expect to reach 911 performance levels. The 911 is also far better equipped to handle that kind of power, whereas I'm still convinced that while the ITS is the pinnacle of FWD performance cars, there's only so far before physics will win and the front tires will be overwhelmed.

I know the Germans as of late are notoriously underrating their engine outputs. That's essentially the root of my question, what real HP level is it making that makes it feel significantly faster? Looking in from the outside not actually being able to experience it myself, we're also getting feedback from the likes of Engineering Explained where he said his butt dyno (and his math) had the rolling acceleration of the ITS feel similar to the M2 at legal road speeds. The M2 is rocking 453hp (on paper) and when matching for the extra heft it carries, i expected the acceleration *feel* of the M2 = 911T = ITS on a perfect day.

In terms of power, I don't care AT ALL about 0-60, I'm more interested in the 70-125+. At those speeds the FWD has little to no disadvantage to RWD or AWD and it's purely the wind resistant which needs significantly more power to overcome it. In an ideal situation, I'd do a boost by gear where 1st, 2nd and 3rd were 100% stock power, and 4-6 were boosted to 400whp. I don't want a Texas2k or Bonneville salt flat vehicle but if the no bolt-on tune give ~80 extra hp, it has my curiosity if it means rolling on the highway I'd have the equivalent performance of a car twice the price, all while maintaining that sweet sweet corner performance.

 

[optronix]

I know the Germans as of late are notoriously underrating their engine outputs. That's essentially the root of my question, what real HP level is it making that makes it feel significantly faster? Looking in from the outside not actually being able to experience it myself, we're also getting feedback from the likes of Engineering Explained where he said his butt dyno (and his math) had the rolling acceleration of the ITS feel similar to the M2 at legal road speeds. The M2 is rocking 453hp (on paper) and when matching for the extra heft it carries, i expected the acceleration *feel* of the M2 = 911T = ITS on a perfect day.

In terms of power, I don't care AT ALL about 0-60, I'm more interested in the 70-125+. At those speeds the FWD has little to no disadvantage to RWD or AWD and it's purely the wind resistant which needs significantly more power to overcome it. In an ideal situation, I'd do a boost by gear where 1st, 2nd and 3rd were 100% stock power, and 4-6 were boosted to 400whp. I don't want a Texas2k or Bonneville salt flat vehicle but if the no bolt-on tune give ~80 extra hp, it has my curiosity if it means rolling on the highway I'd have the equivalent performance of a car twice the price, all while maintaining that sweet sweet corner performance.

I saw the engineering explained vid and my takeaway is that the ITS gearing and weight gives it distinct advantages in certain scenarios. But the K20C in stock form is not a powerhouse, and truthfully I could care less. It's fast enough. I've had plenty of cars with loads of power, and honestly the only one I truly miss is the N/A 4.0 in the 718. Something about the way that engine delivered power was sublime... but I just didn't buy the ITS for that sensation of speed and power and have found through experience that I can truly live without it.

My wife's Macan can rocket to 60 in about 3.5 seconds. Shit's crazy these days. But I still elect to take my ITS virtually anywhere I go because it's better to drive (but only just...).

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