'09 TL Wheels fit! Winter Setup

[jugauthi]

I think folks are taking this thread out of context. He stated it fits, and it fits. He stated for additional clearance he will add a spacer. He stated this is his “I don’t care” winter setup. Not even sure what there is to discuss as there was no question.

But can it drive in snow?!?!?! I'll see myself out....

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[Spart]

I don't know that skinnier tires really perform that much better than wider ones. This test shows they make, at best, a very marginal improvement on snow / ice (and obviously they offer worse performance on dry pavement). The key is having good winter tires and driving appropriately for the conditions.

I generally agree with this. There's an improvement on snow/ice when going narrower but it is marginal.

When driving on slush however, you have to remember how heavy your given vehicle is and how wide the tires are in relation to that, and how that plays into hydroplane resistance.

Our cars have a LOT of width relative to weight. It's bad for hydroplaning. One of the most dangerous things that can happen to you is to lose grip when everyone around you has grip. If your vehicle is really prone to hydroplaning, you will find yourself in this circumstance.

Tread depth and design also plays into it, but at a certain point when your tires are very wide, going narrower is the best move.

ETA: the forum ate the link to your YouTube video for me, so here's how to find it: https://www.youtube.com/@tyrereviews/search?query=wide vs narrow tire snow ice

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Let me just get the gasoline to pour on top here...

I care more about the type and quality of the tire for the intended use case than exact sizing. Not many options in factory size. More options in 18" winters, especially if going a bit narrower. As long as the load rating aligns or you appropriately adjust, it should be fine for the use case.

I personally don't do crazy deep snow in my its (because a q7 on blizzaks can be floored in 12" of snow and take off faster than an its in the dry), but 18s gave me good options of performance winters that are both fun and reasonably grippy in most winter weather (esp ice). If your target is more snow traction, you just have to go narrower because of options available...

I always liked the old TL wheels. If it were me, I'd strip them and do something fun with a paint job (like dark grey speckled with orange or something) but they look good either way .

 

[Spart]

Just to add to the width and diameter discussion.

Porsche is one of the few manufacturers to make specific winter tire recommendations in their owner's manuals. Here's an example:

So they recommended going from a 18x8 wrapped in 225/40R18 to a 17x7 wrapped in 205/50R17 in the front, and in the back (even more drastically) they recommended going from a 18x10 wrapped in 285/30R18 to a 17x8 wrapped in 225/45R17. Note the difference in offsets also.

I am sure someone will be along arguing that we appeal to a higher authority than Porsche about driving performance cars in the snow (perhaps we should ask the Pope?) but for the rest of us, I hope that's illuminating enough.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Just to add to the width and diameter discussion.

Porsche is one of the few manufacturers to make specific winter tire recommendations in their owner's manuals. Here's an example:

So they recommended going from a 18x8 wrapped in 225/40R18 to a 17x7 wrapped in 205/50R17 in the front, and in the back (even more drastically) they recommended going from a 18x10 wrapped in 285/30R18 to a 17x8 wrapped in 225/45R17. Note the difference in offsets also.

I am sure someone will be along arguing that we appeal to a higher authority than Porsche about driving performance cars in the snow (perhaps we should ask the Pope?) but for the rest of us, I hope that's illuminating enough.

I've also seen the same from audi somewhere in the owner's manual. I followed their rec to go from 285/45/20 to 255/50/20 for winters.

Porsche, audi, vw, and Lamborghini I've also seen specifically note you should set the winter speed warning to 99mph or the max of the tire manufacturers recommendation. 100mph on true winters is skeeeetchy.

 

[STi from DSM]

I think this is a great find. There is nothing wrong with trying things out and reporting them back on here. Does it need a spacer? Yes, lol. That was a gnat's ass for clearance. But they do clear. I would think even a 5mm spacer would do the trick.
Stock wheels for winter are always best, but if you can't find stock wheels or don't want to spend the money on them then look for different options. I bought $250 wheels for my 2019 RS5. I just want wheels that work and aren't ugly.

 

[MoppyChoppy]

I don't know that skinnier tires really perform that much better than wider ones. This test shows they make, at best, a very marginal improvement on snow / ice (and obviously they offer worse performance on dry pavement). The key is having good winter tires and driving appropriately for the conditions.

As someone who has spent their entire driving-age life in winter climates, the reasons you typically seem to see more trucks and other large vehicles with wide tires struggling in snowy conditions is less because of the width of the tires and more because:
(I) their owners typically overlook the importance of tire compound, assuming their awd systems and heavy curb weight will give them adequate performance on all season or over-worn tires;
(II) while heavy vehicles lose traction "later" than lighter ones, they are harder to bring back under control after they lose grip and often offer less communication re: available grip or the lack thereof;
(III) people who fear and / or struggle with driving in poor conditions often turn to large vehicles specifically because they want a better "winter car", assuming awd and weight will solve their problems, instead of learning how to drive appropriately.

And, yes, I've always laughed inside a little bit every time someone told me that the ONLY reason they made it into the office that morning was because they had a truck / SUV / Subaru, when I'd made it in just fine with 2 driven wheels and a sub-3k lb curb weight (or smiled to myself while passing someone in a 2+ ton behemoth stuck spinning their tires).

Blizzaks are where it's at! Given decent visibility and appropriate time / place / manner, etc., winter driving is the most fun I've ever had in a car. (And it kills me inside that I feel inclined to keep my "fun" cars off the road in the winter, for fear of corrosion d/t the absurd amounts of salt they put down... hope OP has a little bit of fun getting responsibly sideways in their ITS on occasion.)

Hahaha This started my morning well!

I learned recently in my region, that trucks and heavy vehicles (Large) are not required to have winter tires. The amount of semis you see drifting off the road into ditches during winter is comedic at this point.

You reminded me I had a work colleague that absolutely wanted an AWD SUV with the same justification : there is no way you can get to work without it!

Yet, he never missed a day at work, snowstorm or not and he had an old rusted out FWD Ford Focus with really really shitty tires. So I confronted him with this fact, which then lead him to say that if he had an AWD, he would consider even cheaper tires.

It'll definitely pinch my heart a little to drive the ITS during winter, especially because of salt, but also....the HORRENDOUS roads we have around where I live. I swear to god, I've seen potholes that could house a whole family. I've had my fair share of busted wheels and tires because of these potholes. You can't even avoid them, they're hidden underneath the fresh snow, but you definitely know it when you drive into one.

And no, haha I won't go sideways anymore. It's the reason why I sold my STI. They know me and I've been warned more than enough.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Hahaha This started my morning well!

I learned recently in my region, that trucks and heavy vehicles (Large) are not required to have winter tires. The amount of semis you see drifting off the road into ditches during winter is comedic at this point.

You reminded me I had a work colleague that absolutely wanted an AWD SUV with the same justification : there is no way you can get to work without it!

Yet, he never missed a day at work, snowstorm or not and he had an old rusted out FWD Ford Focus with really really shitty tires. So I confronted him with this fact, which then lead to say that if he had an AWD, he would consider even cheaper tires.

It'll definitely pinch my heart a little to drive the ITS during winter, especially because of salt, but also....the HORRENDOUS roads we have around where I live. I swear to god, I've seen potholes that could house a whole family. I've had my fair share of busted wheels and tires because of these potholes. You can't even avoid them, they're hidden underneath the fresh snow, but you definitely know it when you drive into one.

And no, haha I won't go sideways anymore. It's the reason why I sold my STI. They know me and I've been warned more than enough.

I drove on Hoosier pass in colorado as a blizzard started. The number of people with Texas and Florida plates with "off-road tires" was fun to see. Saw a 4runner almost slide off a cliff in front of me. I did see a snow plow salt truck get stuck. He was subsequently passed by a Mazda 3 on vikings.

 

[Spart]

I drove on Hoosier pass in colorado as a blizzard started. The number of people with Texas and Florida plates with "off-road tires" was fun to see. Saw a 4runner almost slide off a cliff in front of me. I did see a snow plow salt truck get stuck. He was subsequently passed by a Mazda 3 on vikings.

Trucks on worn-out mud terrains are the most hilarious to watch in the snow around here. Gotta have sipes if you want to have any real grip.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Trucks on worn-out mud terrains are the most hilarious to watch in the snow around here. Gotta have sipes if you want to have any real grip.

Every year I have people criticize me for having winter tires to swap being in Kansas city. Every year we get smedium snow storms, ice storms, and the occasional blizzard. Every year people are filmed sliding off the road just trying to drive. Last year a woman jumped out of her moving car as it slid down an exit ramp... She then slid her own way off the road and the car kept going, nearly hits her and off into traffic.

I think we need a "tell me a true story" thread around here... I'm sure other people have seen sillier things

 

[Spart]

Not sure why this was deleted, so adding it back.

One of the misconceptions people sometimes have is that if you reduce the width of your tires, you reduce the contact patch. Generally speaking, that isn't true at all since your total contact patch is a function of:

• How many pounds does the car weigh?
• What is the PSI (pounds per square inch) in the tires?
• How many square inches of tire tread touch the ground before each square inch is supporting the PSI of the tires? That is your contact patch.

Notice how width of the tire doesn't factor in. If you car weighs 3200 pounds and you have 32 psi of air in your tires, you would expect to have 3200/32=100 square inches of contact patch regardless of width or diameter.

This video illustrates the principle very nicely:



Notice that there is some variability away from the formula - tread design and sidewall construction can throw a bit of a wrench in things. But generally speaking, the formula holds true.

So that being said, what changes with different tire widths is the shape of the contact patch.

Depending on the situation, different shapes of contact patch may have advantages or disadvantages.

This still from the video above covers some of those:

"Wet roads" are on there, but again one of the things I specifically call out thanks to no small amount of personal experience is hydroplaning and slush.

Narrow contact patches have superior hydroplane resistance, and this for me is the single biggest reason to go narrower on winter tires.

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