ForeverCar’s ITS Journal

[QUIKAG]

I can't reconcile going from a GT3 to a GTS. You lost me on that one... but I'm also the guy that went from a 991.2 C2S (manual) to a 718 GTS 4.0 (PDK), on purpose. So I'm probably full of shit.

Sold the GT3 as I was out of garage space with a first 250 CT5-V Blackwing six-speed coming, had it 3 years and put 13k miles on it, needed new brake rotors, wing was chipped when I backed into garage door (don't ask) and they basically gave me my money back in 2021 in the heyday.

Problem was, I didn't get them to confirm a 992 GT3 allocation in writing, but they did hold my tax credit (Texas sales tax) and to keep from losing it a year or so later, they agreed to give me a 992 GTS allocation. I added all the performance options but the ceramic brakes and it was a fast, great sounding car, but it just didn't get me like the GT3, so I sold it a few months later and am now waiting on another GT3.

Sponsored

 

[optronix]

Sold the GT3 as I was out of garage space with a first 250 CT5-V Blackwing six-speed coming, had it 3 years and put 13k miles on it, needed new brake rotors, wing was chipped when I backed into garage door (don't ask) and they basically gave me my money back in 2021 in the heyday.

Problem was, I didn't get them to confirm a 992 GT3 allocation in writing, but they did hold my tax credit (Texas sales tax) and to keep from losing it a year or so later, they agreed to give me a 992 GTS allocation. I added all the performance options but the ceramic brakes and it was a fast, great sounding car, but it just didn't get me like the GT3, so I sold it a few months later and am now waiting on another GT3.

It all makes sense now lol. Yeah dealers play games with the 992 GT3s, I'm sure there are some people out there that don't pay north of $250k for them but they also probably have Carrera GTs or 918s.

 

[ForeverCar]

I've had 3 P-cars, a new '16 981 GT4, a new '18 991.2 GT3, and the latest a new '23 992 GTS PDK. I sold the GTS after a thousand miles. It was an AMAZING car, but once I had tasted that GT3 motor in the .2, I decided I needed another one in my life and as capable as the GTS was, it didn't wire itself in my synapses like the GT3. Looking for a 992 GT3 that isn't $50k+ over for a used one. The ITS has been awesome so far, but it's not a Porsche obviously. Different categories, but both great cars.

It is great that Porsche is still building high rpm naturally aspirated sports cars! The 4.0L in the GT3 (and other GT cars that use the that engine) is likely the pinnacle. Soon enough, other than very low volume specialty cars, that kind of engine will not be available new.

Of course, cultural and generational preferences will move on as well. To me, it adds greatly to how I enjoy these cars.

 

[ForeverCar]

Sold the GT3 as I was out of garage space with a first 250 CT5-V Blackwing six-speed coming, had it 3 years and put 13k miles on it, needed new brake rotors, wing was chipped when I backed into garage door (don't ask) and they basically gave me my money back in 2021 in the heyday.

Problem was, I didn't get them to confirm a 992 GT3 allocation in writing, but they did hold my tax credit (Texas sales tax) and to keep from losing it a year or so later, they agreed to give me a 992 GTS allocation. I added all the performance options but the ceramic brakes and it was a fast, great sounding car, but it just didn't get me like the GT3, so I sold it a few months later and am now waiting on another GT3.

I hope you are able to get a GT3. 992.1 is getting close to the end of the cycle. Of course, I think it is likely that Porsche will try to stay naturally aspirated and non-hybrid for the 992.2 GT3. We will see...

 

[ForeverCar]

@optronix I think variety and applying "the right" perspective is key to enjoying cars. Preferences change over time and even the most amazing car with "the wrong" perspective becomes meh.

When demand is higher than supply, other than the 0.01%, we all pay one way or another to be able to get these special cars. I have bought 9 new Porsches from the same dealership (and other new cars from the same dealership groups) so that helps. Sadly, it's still trade at wholesale and buy at retail. With one exception, I do get to dodge the ADM pain though. I am not under the delusions that I don't pay though.

 

[ForeverCar]

Well, I do wish the ITS has a 20+ gallons fuel tank. Of course, that would compromise on the amazing amount of space though. Like most car design aspects, trade offs are involved.

 

[ForeverCar]

The 992.1 T continues to impress. I enjoyed another ~125 miles fun drive this morning in mostly dry condition averaging ~10 mpg (the large fuel tank is great!)

For my use, having 7-speed is a minus as it makes the gate more crowded. It is not a big deal though as I rarely even use 5th. Top of 4th is silly speed and I think shorter final drive and tighter transmission ratios would make the driving experience more exciting (of course, compromising on something else). Traction wise, it is tough to beat a RR setup with wide rear tires. Another little surprise has been the force needed to close the doors. I suspect because of how well it seals, it requires more force than expected to close.

Interesting to see EVO put the CTR ahead of the 911 T in the COTA

Being the only 2 manual transmission cars in the EVO 2023 COTA group, I agree with Henry that the ITS shifting experience slightly edges out the 911 T (to me, the 6-speed gate spacing makes the biggest difference in the comparison). The 911 T damping is very well done and is more sporty. The ITS is more friendly on bumpy roads though.

I also had a major duh moment this morning too. It has taken many cars and many years. I am starting to gain the wisdom and realize that maybe I enjoy driving and it is less about the cars.

 

[optronix]

I also had a major duh moment this morning too. It has taken many cars and many years. I am starting to gain the wisdom and realize that maybe I enjoy driving and it is less about the cars.

They love those little underdog cars don't they? I think it was EVO that put the M2 CS as COTY a few years ago, almost made me buy one.

I also agree on the 7MT. Apparently the one in the 991.2 was way better than the 991.1, and I'd imagine the 992.1 is even better... but I hardly ever used that 7th gear either and people thought I was crazy when I suggested the shifter in my son's Civic Si was better than the one in my 911...

I don't recall you spec'd your T with rear-axle steering, but I think I remember you saying you had a GT3 which I believe comes standard with it... personally I thought it was a huge benefit. One of the most significant things I miss about that 911 was the way the rear end just seemed to be magnetically attached to the outer surface of the road in a corner... difficult to describe but a true pleasure to experience, and I think it's a sensation that's exclusive to the 911 and only enhanced with rear-axle steering.

Also right there with you with the cars vs driving thing. As long as it meets the criteria of "a good driver's car", the actual car itself doesn't really move the needle as much as I thought it would on the overall enjoyment scale.

 

[ForeverCar]

They love those little underdog cars don't they? I think it was EVO that put the M2 CS as COTY a few years ago, almost made me buy one.

I also agree on the 7MT. Apparently the one in the 991.2 was way better than the 991.1, and I'd imagine the 992.1 is even better... but I hardly ever used that 7th gear either and people thought I was crazy when I suggested the shifter in my son's Civic Si was better than the one in my 911...

I don't recall you spec'd your T with rear-axle steering, but I think I remember you saying you had a GT3 which I believe comes standard with it... personally I thought it was a huge benefit. One of the most significant things I miss about that 911 was the way the rear end just seemed to be magnetically attached to the outer surface of the road in a corner... difficult to describe but a true pleasure to experience, and I think it's a sensation that's exclusive to the 911 and only enhanced with rear-axle steering.

Also right there with you with the cars vs driving thing. As long as it meets the criteria of "a good driver's car", the actual car itself doesn't really move the needle as much as I thought it would on the overall enjoyment scale.

The 7-speed in the 992.1 T is as good as it gets for a 7-speed manual. Sadly, there’s no getting around the gate arrangement though. Since I mostly drive it like a 5-speed, it is wonderful!

@optronix Nothing sneaks past you! I intentionally did not select RWS for the T as I was going for simplicity, as lightweight as possible, and more old school dynamics. In a sense, there can almost be too much of a good thing. The double wishbone front end, stiffer suspension, wider tires (80TW), and RWS put the GT3T into pretty silly territory. In this zoomed in part of my preference spectrum, I wanted the T to be more different so I can experience and enjoy the nuances while keeping both cars more fresh every time I get to enjoy them.

The old school pure & simple dynamics is a big plus on the ITS! While lots of latest technologies have been applied, I think Honda/Acura did an amazing job to keep it pure and the resulting experience is a highlight.

 

[ForeverCar]

During this morning's fun drive, I discovered another nuance that helps me understand why I prefer the ITS shifting over the 911 T (besides the gate pattern/spacing). On the 992.1, the shift knob has a very light feel. ITS has a bit more mass and the inertia feels better to me. Of course, much of this is personal preference too.

My fun drives are for enjoyment, self discovery, and almost like a form of meditation for me.

 

[SilverRocket]

My fun drives are for enjoyment, self discovery, and almost like a form of meditation for me.

I share the philosophy, I consider my car better than a shrink (and the car payment is cheaper too), however I'm unfortunately still a grasshopper since I let the multitude of drivers who seemingly got their licenses at the bottom of a CrackerJack box temporarily break the Zen of my drive.

 

[ForeverCar]

Dropped the 911 T off for an alignment mainly to get the steering wheel centered (it requires a degree or 2 to the right to track straight).

Back to back drives are great for comparison for sure. Jumping back into the ITS, the following jumped out that I very much appreciate,

• The slightly higher inertia feel of the shifter
• Shorter final drive ratio
• Shorter clutch pedal travel
• Apple CarPlay seems to work quicker and more consistently
• There is something about a highly tuned turbo inline-4 that's emotional for me

 

[ForeverCar]

My 911 T weighs 3302 lbs with close to a full 23.7 gallons fuel tank (probably 1 gallon from full).

I appreciate that Porsche still keeps car relatively lightweight and do not publish highly optimistic specs like some other brand (you might have a good guess on what brand I might be referring to). McLaren is even better at keeping their cars lightweight too.

I also want to share a potentially controversial perspective. The 911 T has just over 600 miles now and I have been enjoy WOT and all the rpm. Why? I believe engine break-in happens very quickly and the following are way more important,

• Always let all the components come up to operating temperatures
• Frequent oil and filter changes (more to have eyes on things but clear filter & oil do not hurt)
• Good fuel (as good as the ECUs are, pulling timing "beat up" on bearings way more than any "lack of break-in")
• Minimize high load (uphill & WOT) at low rpm
• Proper cool down
• Mechanical awareness and sympathy (be sensitive to any signs of trouble and address root causes prior to running it hard again)

I did the same for the ITS (and all other new cars practically).

 

[optronix]

Break in philosophies are all over the place. I remember "breaking in" a brand new Yamaha R6 sportbike way back in my 20s when things like that were appealing to me; someone online convinced me that the absolute best way to do this was to go from a ~2500rpm cruise to redline in 2nd gear a few times, then I'd be good to go. Well, I did this- and the engine was actually perfectly fine but interestingly enough I wasn't. I had never ridden a true sportbike before that R6, so when I hit ~8000 rpm and the bike tried to take off from under me, I was not truly prepared.

For cars I generally now follow whatever's outlined in the manual, but I realize I'm more or less wasting my time.

 

[ForeverCar]

Break in philosophies are all over the place. I remember "breaking in" a brand new Yamaha R6 sportbike way back in my 20s when things like that were appealing to me; someone online convinced me that the absolute best way to do this was to go from a ~2500rpm cruise to redline in 2nd gear a few times, then I'd be good to go. Well, I did this- and the engine was actually perfectly fine but interestingly enough I wasn't. I had never ridden a true sportbike before that R6, so when I hit ~8000 rpm and the bike tried to take off from under me, I was not truly prepared.

For cars I generally now follow whatever's outlined in the manual, but I realize I'm more or less wasting my time.

Totally, I think letting the engine come up to operating temp quickly and giving it full load & heat cycles are key to a good running engine in the long run. While trying to accomplish that, other important factors that I consider are,

• Does my experience prepare me to handle this vehicle?
• How are the road conditions?
• Are the tires new and "greasy"?
• Will I have the opportunity to do multiple heat cycles and a proper cool down?
• Can I gradually warm up the brakes and tires as well?

Sponsored