climate control problem: no heat

[SlippyFist]

Yeah the general trend around here has been "blind to the problems or unicorn car with no issues", "selectively blind and ignoring the car's problems", or "frustrated enough to go buy a different car".

I expect these cars will have a lot of owners changing hands quickly, resulting uncertainty around service histories and problems, large loss in value after 3-5 yrs, and many going off the road within 8-10 years. Mid term they'll be cheap like the S2k once was, but I don't believe they'll truly claw value back after they get discontinued because they're not a sports car, not unique, and not poised to age well with the already apparent build and reliability concerns.

On the plus side, their prices will surely tumble enough for them to make for fun second/third/nth toys for a bigger audience and maybe we'll have more of them as track beaters!!

i'm not frustrated enough to buy another car, but if i had to do everything all over again, i doubt i would get this car again. some people here are weirdly sycophantic about this car, where bringing up any valid criticism of it sends them into a tailspin of defensiveness.

ugh i hope you're wrong about the car losing a lot of value, though at this point i suspect you're right.

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[Victorofhavoc]

i'm not frustrated enough to buy another car, but if i had to do everything all over again, i doubt i would get this car again. some people here are weirdly sycophantic about this car, where bringing up any valid criticism of it sends them into a tailspin of defensiveness.

ugh i hope you're wrong about the car losing a lot of value, though at this point i suspect you're right.

I believe it will gain some value back after it's discontinued in '28, but until then I believe it will start to drop a lot soon. All cars are going to have a tough next couple years with repo rates climbing, but this car serves a niche which is incredibly focused; the not a sports car, not a track car, fwd, very aggressive for the street, manual, and 4 seater not-a-hatch hatchback niche.

Thing is, not many people drive manuals anymore, and those looking for a manual are typically looking for a second or third car now which makes more sense to just get a proper sports car. It's a real rarity to find someone that wants a fwd street car with only 4 seats and a manual. And if you really want a fwd street car that's more "raw" (but still nowhere near actually raw to prevent it from being streetable daily), the arguably more special Fl5 exists... It's just more boy racery, which for the appearance alone I'd never buy.

I could be wrong, and I hope I am! Guess we'll see!

 

[SilverRocket]

i'm not frustrated enough to buy another car, but if i had to do everything all over again, i doubt i would get this car again. some people here are weirdly sycophantic about this car, where bringing up any valid criticism of it sends them into a tailspin of defensiveness.

ugh i hope you're wrong about the car losing a lot of value, though at this point i suspect you're right.

I believe it's due to the copious amounts of false criticism it receives, some owners are constantly in defense mode, including from time to time myself.

I think what people fail to realize is that everything has negatives, you just need to find the car that the "negatives" that gel with you. The rattles are a bit annoying but personally I can live with them considering I'm a long term owner, all cars rattle to some degree and I'd take rattles over huge repair/maintenance bills for other brands.

 

[SlippyFist]

I believe it's due to the copious amounts of false criticism it receives, some owners are constantly in defense mode, including from time to time myself.

I think what people fail to realize is that everything has negatives, you just need to find the car that the "negatives" that gel with you. The rattles are a bit annoying but personally I can live with them considering I'm a long term owner, all cars rattle to some degree and I'd take rattles over huge repair/maintenance bills for other brands.

im not sure what "false" criticism you're referring to; all the criticism i've seen about this car is completely valid, and the defensiveness from people is just cope.

so anyway i took my car up to my local dealership and they looked at it and yep, the expansion tank leaked all the coolant out. i have absolutely no idea when this happened; i haven't noticed any fluid leak spots on my driveway where i park it, and the last handful of times i've driven it (including a 30 minute drive to the dealership today) the temp gauge has never exceeded the 4 bar operating temp, so i guess it still has a 'safe' level of coolant in it for now. regardless, they had to order a new one and are supposed to receive & install it tomorrow.

I asked them if Honda ever updated the part, as it's been a known problem, and they said nope. same exact part, never updated. so they're replacing a badly designed part that they know fails with another one that's going to crack and fail all over again. *fuck honda for this*. so i guess i'm in the market for the PRL one or whoever else makes a properly put together tank?

as someone who has driven hondas (with a toyota and jeep thrown in) his whole life, this is the last straw for me. this is the last honda i'm ever buying.

 

[SilverRocket]

im not sure what "false" criticism you're referring to; all the criticism i've seen about this car is completely valid, and the defensiveness from people is just cope.

so anyway i took my car up to my local dealership and they looked at it and yep, the expansion tank leaked all the coolant out. i have absolutely no idea when this happened; i haven't noticed any fluid leak spots on my driveway where i park it, and the last handful of times i've driven it (including a 30 minute drive to the dealership today) the temp gauge has never exceeded the 4 bar operating temp, so i guess it still has a 'safe' level of coolant in it for now. regardless, they had to order a new one and are supposed to receive & install it tomorrow.

I asked them if Honda ever updated the part, as it's been a known problem, and they said nope. same exact part, never updated. so they're replacing a badly designed part that they know fails with another one that's going to crack and fail all over again. *fuck honda for this*. so i guess i'm in the market for the PRL one or whoever else makes a properly put together tank?

as someone who has driven hondas (with a toyota and jeep thrown in) his whole life, this is the last straw for me. this is the last honda i'm ever buying.

1) It's slow. What they're really saying is it's not a 0-60 car and they fail to acknowledge that short of driving much more expensive cars, it's probably faster than 90+% of the other cars on the road.

2) It's Fail Wheel Drive (needs AWD). No, not every car needs an AWD system that makes it overly heavy. There are tons of other cars with AWD or RWD, leave the few FWD options alone. What I really am hearing from these people is "I'm too retarded to seek out another car that fits my wants/needs". It's not like it's a secret drivetrain you only discover after buying it.

3) It needs (insert feature here) to be worth the money. Worst offender is usually the sunroof IMHO. Same logic as #2, why buy it if you think it's bad value? Seriously go buy that 4-5 year old M3 for $40k and let's talk total cost of ownership in 3-4 years.

It all boils down to the fact that the Type R/S are niche products. For those who love them such as myself we don't want them converted into a luxury barge that use electronic wizardry to get you around the track blazingly fast but in the most boring of manners. Just say no to keeping up with the Germans. My brother's S3 feels a bit more punchy down low but it feels dull and unalive past that initial grunt and especial in a turn. So the defensiveness comes as a protection of what makes this car special.

However your complaint about Honda not updating the expansion tank design is completely valid and also as a lifetime Honda owner, 16 years owning, 26years if you consider riding in the car before I even had my license....I agree, if they keep this shit up my next car, whenever that will be, might not be a Honda product. However I am still extremely happy with my current garage of a '13 Civic Si, '24 ITS and '26 Civic Sport Hybrid, rattles, faults and all.

 

[SlippyFist]

1) It's slow. What they're really saying is it's not a 0-60 car and they fail to acknowledge that short of driving much more expensive cars, it's probably faster than 90+% of the other cars on the road.

I don't see people complain that the car is slow per say, typically they are complaining about it being slow from a dig because of the terrible wheel spin in 1st and 2nd gear. and they are 100% correct. we all know this isn't the car you buy if you want to race people at stop lights or a drag strip, but even without trying to do so, just basic spirited acceleration through 2nd will get you. the car really picks up once you get into 3rd but it still drives me crazy.

2) It's Fail Wheel Drive (needs AWD). No, not every car needs an AWD system that makes it overly heavy. There are tons of other cars with AWD or RWD, leave the few FWD options alone. What I really am hearing from these people is "I'm too retarded to seek out another car that fits my wants/needs". It's not like it's a secret drivetrain you only discover after buying it.

genuine sincere question: what other options are there for 4 cylinder AWD manual transmission turbo rockets other than the GR Corolla? (ugh it feels gross even saying it lol). it's actually funny that you brought this up because while i was at the dealership waiting for my car to get looked at, i spoke with one of the service managers about my car in general and he brought up this very point. i myself had never even considered this position, as i just expect hondas to be FWD and it wasn't something that i initially cared about up front. his argument was that there has always been a demand for AWD 4 cylinder turbo cars that for years was carried pretty much entirely by the STi and Evo, and with both of those cars now gone and never coming back (well apparently the STi is coming back as a full EV- aren't you dripping with anticipation for that ) the market now has a hole that isn't really being filled anymore that there's still very much a big demand for. i had never considered this myself but i actually kinda agree with that premise. trust me, this car nor sales of it would not have been harmed by it being AWD.

3) It needs (insert feature here) to be worth the money. Worst offender is usually the sunroof IMHO. Same logic as #2, why buy it if you think it's bad value? Seriously go buy that 4-5 year old M3 for $40k and let's talk total cost of ownership in 3-4 years.

i think this, like point 1, is a slight misrepresentation of the actual criticism. instead of framing it as "it needs <insert features> to be worth the money" i would frame it as "the car does not come with a handful of basic QoL features that should be standard on a car in this price range" and no, im not talking about the sunroof lol. I agree with you in that i have seen people complain about the lack of sunroof and i also agree that it's ridiculous because you would think the people in the market for a car like this would want the structural rigidity. the actual complaint is really regarding the lack of powered passenger seat, mirror/seat memory, and rear-facing center console A/C vent & USB ports. I fully concede that these are minor features that you can totally live without. They are not a deal-breaker (for me) and at this point i don't really even think about them anymore (well not until i have a passenger lol) but it's still completely valid to criticize honda for exluding these on their premier trim- particularly when they're available on the lower trims. the idea that this car is "niche" or whatever does not bear any weight on this at all. i dont care what the fuck 'niche market' or whatever this or any car is in; it's indefensible for a >$50K car in the 2020s to be missing these features, and I will die on that hill.

There are people here who have seen my criticisms of this car and think that I hate it or whatever, and i don't at all. it's a great car. it drives and handles great. it has an amazing transmission that feels great to shift. i do like this car alot, but i refuse to blind myself to the problems that it has. beyond what was discussed above, this car does have some build/quality issues. i fortunately dont have any interior squeaks or creaks, but i do have some plastic trim on the inside of my hatch door that doesn't stay snapped into place. ive had my dealership try to fix it and they can't, apparently lol. plus my trunk handles were falling out every time i closed my hatch but they were able to get those snapped in place and they've stayed put since. Also- do not get the illuminated door sills. i think they look really nice but they are pieces of shit. they are not sealed properly so if they get water on them- rain, water from your shoes, the water from PPF application, etc- the water gets right inside of them and ruins them. ask me how many sets of them i've had replaced before i stopped bothering them about it. they're pieces of chinese plastic shit just like the expansion tank lol.

if i had to do this all over again i would not get this car again- and to completely fair, i don't really know what car i would get. if i could go back in time i might convince myself to get a blackwing, though they were a bit more money than i wanted to spend, and honestly GM quality kinda scares me lol i'm concerned if i buy a GM-made car it will spend more time in the shop than on the road lol.

this whole thing with the expansion tank has really soured my view of not just this car but Honda as a whole; it's bothering me more than the other criticisms ive mentioned

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I don't see people complain that the car is slow per say, typically they are complaining about it being slow from a dig because of the terrible wheel spin in 1st and 2nd gear. and they are 100% correct. we all know this isn't the car you buy if you want to race people at stop lights or a drag strip, but even without trying to do so, just basic spirited acceleration through 2nd will get you. the car really picks up once you get into 3rd but it still drives me crazy.



genuine sincere question: what other options are there for 4 cylinder AWD manual transmission turbo rockets other than the GR Corolla? (ugh it feels gross even saying it lol). it's actually funny that you brought this up because while i was at the dealership waiting for my car to get looked at, i spoke with one of the service managers about my car in general and he brought up this very point. i myself had never even considered this position, as i just expect hondas to be FWD and it wasn't something that i initially cared about up front. his argument was that there has always been a demand for AWD 4 cylinder turbo cars that for years was carried pretty much entirely by the STi and Evo, and with both of those cars now gone and never coming back (well apparently the STi is coming back as a full EV- aren't you dripping with anticipation for that ) the market now has a hole that isn't really being filled anymore that there's still very much a big demand for. i had never considered this myself but i actually kinda agree with that premise. trust me, this car nor sales of it would not have been harmed by it being AWD.


i think this, like point 1, is a slight misrepresentation of the actual criticism. instead of framing it as "it needs <insert features> to be worth the money" i would frame it as "the car does not come with a handful of basic QoL features that should be standard on a car in this price range" and no, im not talking about the sunroof lol. I agree with you in that i have seen people complain about the lack of sunroof and i also agree that it's ridiculous because you would think the people in the market for a car like this would want the structural rigidity. the actual complaint is really regarding the lack of powered passenger seat, mirror/seat memory, and rear-facing center console A/C vent & USB ports. I fully concede that these are minor features that you can totally live without. They are not a deal-breaker (for me) and at this point i don't really even think about them anymore (well not until i have a passenger lol) but it's still completely valid to criticize honda for exluding these on their premier trim- particularly when they're available on the lower trims. the idea that this car is "niche" or whatever does not bear any weight on this at all. i dont care what the fuck 'niche market' or whatever this or any car is in; it's indefensible for a >$50K car in the 2020s to be missing these features, and I will die on that hill.

There are people here who have seen my criticisms of this car and think that I hate it or whatever, and i don't at all. it's a great car. it drives and handles great. it has an amazing transmission that feels great to shift. i do like this car alot, but i refuse to blind myself to the problems that it has.

if i had to do this all over again i would not get this car again- and to completely fair, i don't really know what car i would get. if i could go back in time i might convince myself to get a blackwing, though they were a bit more money than i wanted to spend, and honestly GM quality kinda scares me lol i'm concerned if i buy a GM-made car it will spend more time in the shop than on the road lol.

I'm not sure I even believe anymore that there's "reliability" in the Honda brand. I mean, how can we say this is a sporty car capable of track time (as the marketing and alignment implies) when it doesn't have a coolant temp readout, an oil cooler, oil temp gauge, and it takes a seance to turn off traction control... All the things necessary to keep it safe and reliable on track. Sure, it's a type s and not a type r... But the criticism stands.

Add to that my brake fluid was putrid from factory and I've lost a lot of confidence.

This is my 5th Honda, and my last for sure. My dad popped his trans in his mdx at 70k miles. My BIL's Ridgeline popped an engine and then later the trans too. On the other hand, my BMW messaged me that the starter battery was getting low from idle time (3months parked in the garage without moving) and recommended I drive it for 30 mins on the highway. My Integra can't even tell me when the fob battery is low .

I love the way this car drives and looks, but I don't love much else about it.

You're right though... What else do we buy? The crapilacwings are obvious options but it's really hard to own a Cadillac...you'd have to be seen in one occasionally. Even camisa can't make that compromise. I've driven 3 g80 m3 and frankly they're just mediocre to drive, but they're a smartphone in tech compared to our rotary dial integras. I'd rather take an e46. The only other new options are real sportscars... Arguably the two best options are the 86 and miata.

 

[SlippyFist]

I'm not sure I even believe anymore that there's "reliability" in the Honda brand.

i didn't really want to say it, but on the back of this comment I will: Honda used to be known for being cheap, and reliable- and it's neither of those things anymore. i think all cars from all brands are too fuckin expensive nowadays, but i could live with it if the quality of them wasn't simultaneously nose-diving.

I mean, how can we say this is a sporty car capable of track time (as the marketing and alignment implies) when it doesn't have a coolant temp readout, an oil cooler, oil temp gauge, and it takes a seance to turn off traction control... All the things necessary to keep it safe and reliable on track. Sure, it's a type s and not a type r... But the criticism stands.

and this to me really magnifies my point about the QoL features. the general consensus is that that the CTR is the track oriented platform, so it makes sense that those QoL features i mentioned would be deleted from it. but you can't then turn around and tell us that the ITS is a "luxurified" CTR when it's still missing these basic standard features that even the fucking A-Spec trim has. seriously, what "luxuries" does this car have that the CTR doesn't- a slightly nicer interior (and by that i mean more comfortable leather seats) and a burble tune for the ECU? i guess the lack of a boy-racer wing counts? when you break it down this way, it's hard to to justify the price increase for the ITS over the CTR. i didn't even consider getting a CTR because of the stupid spoiler alone, but i'm just throwing it out there for everyeone else who typically chose between the 2.

I love the way this car drives and looks, but I don't love much else about it.

THIS IS THE PERFECT SUMMARY OF THIS CAR.

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