J's Racing releasing exhaust for De5 ITS

[Victorofhavoc]

Well... if the Borla is almost $3k then this sort of makes sense.

Ultimately this seems like it tracks more towards the crowd that doesn't care about drone. The clips I've heard of the FK8 with this exhaust sound pretty good, but I've also seen complaints about "boominess".

Not relevant to this discussion but just as a reference point, I just bought a Good-Win Racing Race muffler for my ND3 Miata. It's basically a straight pipe with a giant Helmholtz. It's fucking perfect. It really is loud when I want it to be and not intrusive when I don't. It's kind of ruined exhausts for me now... but it can be pretty damn loud. For a roadster I drive on specific occasions that's fine, but I'm not sure I'd want it on the DE5 every single day. But I would at least consider it, because it sounds better than any other ND exhaust I've heard. I can't help but wonder what a similar setup would be like on the DE5. I guess the Borla comes closest?

Spot on. Both being similarish 4cyl engines their corresponding helmholtz tune out similar frequencies. The difference is the de5 makes a horrible vtec changeover rasp and the miata is a more nasaly drone that's being targeted.

The borla also stops using more and more of the helm as the valve opens up, which you want in a true performance driving scenario so you can hear when/where the changeover happens, but you do not want for the street.

Tomei makes a full ti exhaust for the Fl5/de5 for 1700$. Dual tip exit and you can buy those exhaust plugs to manually quiet it down (they do work). I'd buy that over the js racing, honestly. You're not buying material quality since the sourcing of ti piping is fairly consistent, same as similar grades of ss. You're hopefully spending extra for sound tuning and weld quality..? But the J's has more welds, so more prone to failure (welding ti is no joke). Neither is doing anything special with sound tuning. The borla is, and it's distinctly borla (polyphonic harmonizer, complex muffler, helmholtz). I agree it's overpriced, but that's also because it's made in the USA where our labor is insanely expensive. I like the sound, but I think the borla should be more like 2300$.

Ref: https://www.maperformance.com/produ...GOOaqNol1x2cx0M8xsXGMiVxoAUYjsgcaAjlNEALw_wcB

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[UWU-mancer]

Esperate papi

the borla is actually one of the options trying to do something with the texture of the sound

Available exhausts for this and the fl5 seem to fall into two camps

1) here’s an exhaust
2) and here’s an exhaust that we spent time on cuz we really wanted to craft a nicer different sound

just being titanium helps these exhaust get closer to #2 due to the hollow sound. And yeah the weight savings are great. But having to hit a muffler shop yearly to inspect the 5 million pie welds and repair sucks!

never owned a j’s. Never heard one in person. Never inspected one either. I’m reserving judgment myself

I myself have owned tons of subbies and the q300 sound is one of my favorites. Even tho invidia sucks donkey dick, as a company. Their exhausts squarely fall into the first category. For sure. But that’s the route I went. Car sounds great in comfort. But eventually I might have regretted my decision cuz I swapped the resonator for a megaphone

really wanted the borla but didn’t like it was 2.75” however that new HRC borla is so tempting. Same exhaust but 3”

big UWU. Just have no idea what the damn thing actually looks like, tips, where’s the resonator, is there a front pipe? Borla’s email customer service has yet to get back to me

 

[bisquick]

I dig the funkiness of the turn down tips; I always liked them on 70rs offerings on earlier Honda's.

Controversial Opinion: non-valved exhausts are a miss. I agree with @UWU-mancer, most companies have taken the #1 approach to just get something on the market. They don't care about retaining factory features (valve) or quality.

It will never happen, but I'd love to see Valvetronic make a full system for the FL5/DE5. Their systems truly are night-and-day when comparing an open and closed valve. I've had half a mind to buy their universal mufflers paired with a vibrant resonator to make my own exhaust, but my A'PEXi has served 90% of my needs.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Esperate papi

the borla is actually one of the options trying to do something with the texture of the sound

Available exhausts for this and the fl5 seem to fall into two camps

1) here’s an exhaust
2) and here’s an exhaust that we spent time on cuz we really wanted to craft a nicer different sound

just being titanium helps these exhaust get closer to #2 due to the hollow sound. And yeah the weight savings are great. But having to hit a muffler shop yearly to inspect the 5 million pie welds and repair sucks!

never owned a j’s. Never heard one in person. Never inspected one either. I’m reserving judgment myself

I myself have owned tons of subbies and the q300 sound is one of my favorites. Even tho invidia sucks donkey dick, as a company. Their exhausts squarely fall into the first category. For sure. But that’s the route I went. Car sounds great in comfort. But eventually I might have regretted my decision cuz I swapped the resonator for a megaphone

really wanted the borla but didn’t like it was 2.75” however that new HRC borla is so tempting. Same exhaust but 3”

big UWU. Just have no idea what the damn thing actually looks like, tips, where’s the resonator, is there a front pipe? Borla’s email customer service has yet to get back to me

So I've heard a few different things about the hrc borla now. One thing I've heard is that it's the same but with hrc branding. I've also heard it's a lighter version without the helmholtz and more similar to a q300, but the intent is to be fully track oriented with a valve open for full sound and valve closed that barely tones it down for the 93dB @50ft track compliance (which is loud AF let me tell you...). Then I've also heard it's the same as the street version but 3", which borla has said they intentionally stayed away from for power/exhaust velocity reasons previously.

So I'm totally unsure what's what now with that hrc version 🫠

Here's the link from dreamshop, https://dreamshop.honda.com/s/product/acura-integra-type-s-racing-exhaust/01tUT00000HRXvmYAH

Note that it's the same product weight as the standard borla option "shipping weight", which means it's either the same or they went to larger piping and removed the complications in the muffler/helm design. I'm inclined to believe the former from experience with other hrc branded products... The price is better though, oddly.

 

[ABPDE5]

So I've heard a few different things about the hrc borla now. One thing I've heard is that it's the same but with hrc branding. I've also heard it's a lighter version without the helmholtz and more similar to a q300, but the intent is to be fully track oriented with a valve open for full sound and valve closed that barely tones it down for the 93dB @50ft track compliance (which is loud AF let me tell you...). Then I've also heard it's the same as the street version but 3", which borla has said they intentionally stayed away from for power/exhaust velocity reasons previously.

So I'm totally unsure what's what now with that hrc version 🫠

Here's the link from dreamshop, https://dreamshop.honda.com/s/product/acura-integra-type-s-racing-exhaust/01tUT00000HRXvmYAH

Note that it's the same product weight as the standard borla option "shipping weight", which means it's either the same or they went to larger piping and removed the complications in the muffler/helm design. I'm inclined to believe the former from experience with other hrc branded products... The price is better though, oddly.

How did you go about finding this? It doesn't show up for me in the Touring section.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

How did you go about finding this? It doesn't show up for me in the Touring section.

AI. I searched for it before and came up short multiple times. I finally just tossed it at Claude a week ago and was able to get the part number from it doing a deep search through some honda/acura official sites and then gemini did the rest.

Note it's "for off highway use only" which probably means it exceeds the lower decibel limits.

If you search for tcx cars that have popped up for sale, they have the exhaust mount totally symmetrical, which I would suspect means there's no helmholtz (it just adds weight anyway beyond street use) and I also suspect the can is smaller to reduce the weight: https://racecarsforyou.com/listing/acura-integra-type-s-de5-tcx-race-car/

That would let it fit within the 93/95dB enforcement of some tracks and full wide for others without major penalty.

 

[egxflash]

Then I've also heard it's the same as the street version but 3", which borla has said they intentionally stayed away from for power/exhaust velocity reasons previously.

This is what they told me also when they mocked the exhaust up on my car.

Curiously, they also used my car to fit the 3" exhaust for the HRC prototype before it was showcased. I guess they went 3" all the same for the higher power output cases?

 

[Victorofhavoc]

This is what they told me also when they mocked the exhaust up on my car.

Curiously, they also used my car to fit the 3" exhaust for the HRC prototype before it was showcased. I guess they went 3" all the same for the higher power output cases?

The turbo robs so much gas velocity there's really no difference between 2.75 and 3". In the old NA days before resonators that were designed to improve flow and with "turbo style" mufflers it used to be true that pipe size was a limiting factor, but it's just not anymore. The most important pipe sizing on a turbo car is the 12" or so right behind the turbo. Needs to be large enough to prevent some backpressure against the turbine and smooth enough to prevent too much turbulence at the edges. This literally only matters at peak torque ranges and slightly above where the throttle lag becomes very evident if it's not sized well.

I don't know why they went to 3" for the racecar... Maybe standardization, but I suspect longer term cooling for longer stints where the extra size and mass allow for cooler exhaust temps. It's not something you'd see on the street or even in 45 min track sessions. You'd have to be really punting the car for hours.

 

[UWU-mancer]

So I've heard a few different things about the hrc borla now. One thing I've heard is that it's the same but with hrc branding. I've also heard it's a lighter version without the helmholtz and more similar to a q300, but the intent is to be fully track oriented with a valve open for full sound and valve closed that barely tones it down for the 93dB @50ft track compliance (which is loud AF let me tell you...). Then I've also heard it's the same as the street version but 3", which borla has said they intentionally stayed away from for power/exhaust velocity reasons previously.

So I'm totally unsure what's what now with that hrc version 🫠

Here's the link from dreamshop, https://dreamshop.honda.com/s/product/acura-integra-type-s-racing-exhaust/01tUT00000HRXvmYAH

Note that it's the same product weight as the standard borla option "shipping weight", which means it's either the same or they went to larger piping and removed the complications in the muffler/helm design. I'm inclined to believe the former from experience with other hrc branded products... The price is better though, oddly.

Bro I have literally heard all of that too! Also heard there’s no valve cuz race car. Even the borla folks don’t seem to know what’s up LOL. Gonna wait a few more days and re email

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Bro I have literally heard all of that too! Also heard there’s no valve cuz race car. Even the borla folks don’t seem to know what’s up LOL. Gonna wait a few more days and re email

Have you called them? Their phone support is fantastic. Super nice people.

 

[UWU-mancer]

Have you called them? Their phone support is fantastic. Super nice people.

Yes but only twice. Was told someone would call me back. Never happened. So that’s when I emailed

got an email back a few hours later telling me to let them research. So that’s what I’m doing

 

[Y0jjimb0]

I dig the funkiness of the turn down tips; I always liked them on 70rs offerings on earlier Honda's.

Controversial Opinion: non-valved exhausts are a miss. I agree with @UWU-mancer, most companies have taken the #1 approach to just get something on the market. They don't care about retaining factory features (valve) or quality.

It will never happen, but I'd love to see Valvetronic make a full system for the FL5/DE5. Their systems truly are night-and-day when comparing an open and closed valve. I've had half a mind to buy their universal mufflers paired with a vibrant resonator to make my own exhaust, but my A'PEXi has served 90% of my needs.

Coming from the bimmer world, I've seen that the quality of the valvetronic stuff is trash now. I agree that any exhaust on a street car nowadays should have a valve though. The equal length mid pipe with a resonator/secondary cat delete and the stock valved muffler was perfect on the X3M. If the De5 wasn't a triple exit stock I might be satisfied with just a resonator delete.

My ideal exhaust for the De5 would be resonator delete and then a valved dual exit muffler that has the option to be fully open all the time regardless of mode/throttle/rpm, but still uses the OEM valve algorithm when you want it to.

 

[UWU-mancer]

Coming from the bimmer world, I've seen that the quality of the valvetronic stuff is trash now. I agree that any exhaust on a street car nowadays should have a valve though. The equal length mid pipe with a resonator/secondary cat delete and the stock valved muffler was perfect on the X3M. If the De5 wasn't a triple exit stock I might be satisfied with just a resonator delete.

My ideal exhaust for the De5 would be resonator delete and then a valved dual exit muffler that has the option to be fully open all the time regardless of mode/throttle/rpm, but still uses the OEM valve algorithm when you want it to.

I think we just fighting physics man. On these modern turbo 4 bangers. Best we can do is throw money at it till it sounds a hair better than ok. Cuz we ain’t never gonna make it sound great

And that’s ok. Hopefully the wooshy sounds can mask our shame some

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I think we just fighting physics man. On these modern turbo 4 bangers. Best we can do is throw money at it till it sounds a hair better than ok. Cuz we ain’t never gonna make it sound great

And that’s ok. Hopefully the wooshy sounds can mask our shame some

Agreed.

This is also why resonators are extremely important on cars like this. The cam rattle is so raspy and awful sounding you NEED a res. With a downpipe change you end up needing an even bigger res than stock to prevent the hollow rasp. There's an Fl5 in my neighborhood that sounds like he has no res and an apexi turbo back. You can hear him for miles, and it's brutal just cruising. I can't imagine what it's like for him just cruising down the road at 75mph.

 

[Y0jjimb0]

I think we just fighting physics man. On these modern turbo 4 bangers. Best we can do is throw money at it till it sounds a hair better than ok. Cuz we ain’t never gonna make it sound great

And that’s ok. Hopefully the wooshy sounds can mask our shame some

Hahaha true I guess

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