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Steve182022

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https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/amp38320712/new-acura-integra-five-door-only/

Why the New Acura Integra Had to Be a Five-Door
Acura wanted a new Integra coupe, but it just wasn't possible.
By Chris Perkins
Nov 22, 2021

gra-prototype-1637595608.jpg?crop=0.434xw:1.00xh;0.jpg


The new Acura Integra is the most divisive car to launch in recent memory. Some are happy there's a new affordable turbo manual sport-compact, but for every one of those people, there seems to be at least two mad that A) the design doesn't nod to previous generations, B) it's not a hardcore Type R, C) it's not a coupe, and D) all of the above. In response to these points, design is subjective, a Type S likely with Civic Type R underpinnings is coming, and a three-door just wasn't possible. But not for lack of trying, per Acura head Jon Ikeda.

"The pricing is what we're looking at, and the entry point, and market behavior more than anything. And the numbers just don't play out," Ikeda told R&T at a preview of the new Integra in California last week. "We were trying the hardest to the very end with the manual Civic Si Coupe, and if we had that car [as a base], maybe we could have thought about something else, too. But the more you do things that aren't there, the more it gets out of the zone of what people can afford."

The Civic coupe was discontinued for the car's 11th-generation likely due to low sales of the previous two-door. The new Integra is based on the Civic—as is the case with all previous Integras—and that limits what Acura can do with this one. Ikeda is saying an Integra coupe is possible without a two-door Civic to base it on, but it'd be quite expensive. Given that consumers have widely abandoned coupes, an expensive Integra three-door would quite obviously be a losing proposition.

1994-integra-gs-r-source-1637603116.jpg

A 1994 Integra GS-R sedan.

In today's world, where American consumers have largely moved to crossovers, offering a new five-door liftback is still a bold move. Beyond the precedent set by four- and five-door versions of the first three generations of Integra, Ikeda felt it important to make the Integra a hatchback for the extra versatility it brings. Millennials especially want to be able to pack their car with gear for weekend adventures with friends, and Ikeda believes this broadens the car's appeal.

"I really believe the fact that we stuck with the hatch and the versatility that it brings is... we might be able to get a little bit more than just what the segment is putting out right now," Ikeda said. "We need to be able to reach with this car beyond our segment."

If you're doubting the Integra's credentials, Ikeda points out that at the heart of every Integra is a great Civic, which Honda has now. He also tells us that the car's chief engineer owned two older Integras. "I said, 'Why did you buy an Integra?' Ikeda recalled. "He said, 'It was a very cool car and I was young and I was excited.' I said, 'Well, you know all the ingredients already. Just make that, because that's what it is.'"
 

bullitt

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Whats sad is that even with how many coupes have left the market, those people are not really moving to the coupes left. Some are. But with the Altima, Civic, Accord coupes and the Focus, and Golf 2 doors gone those buyers are going to the Miata, 86/BRZ or Mustang EcoBoost. But more of them are just going to a 4 door instead.

Coupe sales were SO low on the Civic and Accord that trying to merge those sales to just 1 car was still not enough profit motivation. I can't think of a single FWD coupe, so it would have had the WHOLE market to itself, and that still wasn't enough driving force.
 

gtman

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RobbJK

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While I wished and prayed for a coupe, I knew it wasn't feasible or likely. It's still good to know that Acura tried and tried to make it happen either way. Knowing that they tried (and will likely keep trying as market trends shift and change) means that they still care... but it seems for a coupe to be viable these days it either has to be coproduced (like the supra and GR86) or have a base price over $40k which isn't nearly as attainable as a $30k vehicle.

Currently the closest thing to a FWD coupe is the mini cooper or the Veloster, neither of which are true coupes, and IMO either car sacrifices certain things too heavily for me to consider over my 19' Civic coupe. The integra may have 2 extra doors (that I will literally NEVER open or use)... but at least it has that coupe-like profile making it still look unique on the road and will undoubtedly drive great with its civic bones.

Maybe someday affordable coupes will return to favor. Until then, it is what it is. Obviously still need to see alot more of the Integra before I make a final decision... but if it doesn't pan out to my liking for any reason, I know that my civic coupe will continue to be a great and fun DD for me for at least a few more years.
 

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This sort of fits the bill...

2022-mini-cooper-s-hardtop-104-1611690979.jpg
p
One of the last that’s for sure. They already confirmed a 3 door for the next Gen. Sadly though at a certain point the 3 door will be offered only as an EV. But once it comes out it’ll have an ICE powertrain, thank God.
 

Hondabob

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I really appreciate what they did with the Integra. They could have made a more extreme hatchback that looks closer to a coupe and basically neutered the Back seats. Instead they just make sure it’s a fully functional hatchback first and then try to style it as swoopy as possible.
 

gtman

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Many hoped for an Si hatch that offered both a manual and either a traditional auto or DCT. Then along comes the Integra hatch that kind of answered the prayers...

Except...

Reading into that article about the Integra Coupe not being feasible likely tells us something else. Being Civic based, the 1.5T powered base Integra will feature a manual and, unfortunately, a CVT.
 

RobbJK

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I really appreciate what they did with the Integra. They could have made a more extreme hatchback that looks closer to a coupe and basically neutered the Back seats. Instead they just make sure it’s a fully functional hatchback first and then try to style it as swoopy as possible.
I think they fully knew that a small crossover would sell better than a small sedan/hatch without even trying, but they really wanted to try and give fans and enthusiasts SOMETHING other than another crossover. So it makes sense they'd want the integra hatch to be as versatile and useable as possible to hopefully win back some of those potential crossover sales if they can see that the Integra would be just as useful.
 

RobbJK

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Many hoped for an Si hatch that offered both a manual and either a traditional auto or DCT. Then along comes the Integra hatch that kind of answered the prayers...

Except...

Reading into that article about the Integra Coupe not being feasible likely tells us something else. Being Civic based, the 1.5T powered base Integra will feature a manual and, unfortunately, a CVT.
I hope it won't... if they really want to call this a performance vehicle they wont.... not when they have the 10-speed auto on hand as well as the 8-speed DCT from the ILX that they could just make small updates to. That 8-speed DCT is totally paid for... it has sold enough units over its lifespan between the ILX and old TLX to have paid for its R&D. They'd assumedly only need to make small updates and tweaks to it to make it work for the new Integra, and it'd probably be lighter/cheaper than the 10-speed.

I don't hate my CVT... but i feel like for something positioned as a performance car from a performance brand... it needs stepped gears IMO. But I could definitely see them using the CVT and just including useless paddle shifters
 

Maxdriver

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I have read and watched several reviews that all spoke highly of the Civic CVT. That is mildly interesting to me however, as I would only buy this vehicle with a manual.
 
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Hondabob

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I’m personally hedging my bets that it will be a DCT trans. CVTs are not what you think of when you think luxury performance car. If they want to compete with the Germans and Hyundai, all of which have DCTs or traditional autos they can’t have the economy transmission.

hate to say it but it would be a near deal breaker for me to be stuck with a CVT
 

HKF

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I hope it won't... if they really want to call this a performance vehicle they wont.... not when they have the 10-speed auto on hand as well as the 8-speed DCT from the ILX that they could just make small updates to. That 8-speed DCT is totally paid for... it has sold enough units over its lifespan between the ILX and old TLX to have paid for its R&D. They'd assumedly only need to make small updates and tweaks to it to make it work for the new Integra, and it'd probably be lighter/cheaper than the 10-speed.

I don't hate my CVT... but i feel like for something positioned as a performance car from a performance brand... it needs stepped gears IMO. But I could definitely see them using the CVT and just including useless paddle shifters
Why? Having driven one (and the current Accord’s 10 AT), I don’t understand the strong dislike of CVTs.
 

TigerEyeJazz

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1.5T would more then likely have the 6 Speed (we already know of) and a Sport Tuned CVT. 2.0T for Type S on the other hand.. might only get 10AT.
 
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Hondabob

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1.5T would more then likely have the 6 Speed (we already know of) and a Sport Tuned CVT. 2.0T for Type S on the other hand.. might only get 10AT.
Well you haven’t been wrong yet, but man that really makes me sad. I know there are benefits to the CVT but my wife’s civic is just so boring to drive I can’t stand it, CVTs have no soul (personal opinion of course) lol
 

gtman

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There's really no such thing as a Honda "sport tuned" CVT. ;) The 1.5T will likely get the Civic's CVT unit with paddle shifters.

As far as the CVT hate. Pretty much all my cars have been manual. My 10th gen Civic 1.5T is my first CVT car. At first I hated it. Hated the way it sounded and felt.

But I do think it actually mates well to the 1.5T overall. Power is there for any situation. In time I began to appreciate it a bit more. I've been tuned nearly 4 years and tuning basically made my car much more fun to drive even with the "boring and efficient" CVT.
 
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