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New z4 dead, Supra to follow?

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bullitt

bullitt

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I see the Supra staying for a year then next Gen built with Mazda
I feel like Toyota will get even more shit if the NEXT supra is also just a rebranded new RX car.

its like they like to brag that they cant be bothered to do anything in house.
 

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I feel like Toyota will get even more shit if the NEXT supra is also just a rebranded new RX car.

its like they like to brag that they cant be bothered to do anything in house.
Idk... they got a lot of crap because the supra was effectively a german car. Having at least another Japanese auto maker take up the partnership for the next Supra seems at least a better pairing in my mind than that of a german made convertible touring car. And if it also nets us a new RX sports car, it's a win win in my book.

While I do agree it's almost laughable that Toyota can't seem to create a sports car without another company building it and offering a near clone themselves, if partnerships and badge engineering is what it takes to be able to offer ANY kind of sporty coupes in this crossover crazed day and age... so be it. I'd rather mechanical clones than none on offer at all. Toyota has not one but two sports coupes at attainable price points on sale (plus a third EV coupe/MR2 coming), despite being niche low volume sellers at best. How many sporty coupes does honda/acura currently offer?

If it meant getting some semblance of an affordable sports coupe offering back on the table, be it CRX, Prelude, Integra Coupe, etc I'd be perfectly fine if Honda decided to split the development and manufacturing costs with another automaker, even if it meant that other automaker got a modestly badge engineered clone. A good pairing just off the top of my head could be hyundai/honda co-developing a next gen CRX/CRZ alongside a next gen Veloster, maybe the big difference being honda's having 2 doors and hyundai continuing the asymmetrical 3 door layout of the current veloster. Another interesting pairing could be honda/mitsubishi to co-develop new prelude/eclipse or something.
 
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Idk... they got a lot of crap because the supra was effectively a german car. Having at least another Japanese auto maker take up the partnership for the next Supra seems at least a better pairing in my mind than that of a german made convertible touring car. And if it also nets us a new RX sports car, it's a win win in my book.

While I do agree it's almost laughable that Toyota can't seem to create a sports car without another company building it and offering a near clone themselves, if partnerships and badge engineering is what it takes to be able to offer ANY kind of sporty coupes in this crossover crazed day and age... so be it. I'd rather mechanical clones than none on offer at all. Toyota has not one but two sports coupes at attainable price points on sale (plus a third EV coupe/MR2 coming), despite being niche low volume sellers at best. How many sporty coupes does honda/acura currently offer?

If it meant getting some semblance of an affordable sports coupe offering back on the table, be it CRX, Prelude, Integra Coupe, etc I'd be perfectly fine if Honda decided to split the development and manufacturing costs with another automaker, even if it meant that other automaker got a modestly badge engineered clone. A good pairing just off the top of my head could be hyundai/honda co-developing a next gen CRX/CRZ alongside a next gen Veloster, maybe the big difference being honda's having 2 doors and hyundai continuing the asymmetrical 3 door layout of the current veloster. Another interesting pairing could be honda/mitsubishi to co-develop new prelude/eclipse or something.
The problem is we know it will be more like the 86 in that Toyota just takes a shopping cart though the Mazda warehouse, picks out parts they like, sends over a sketch of what they are thinking, then walks back over in 18 months to see how it's going.

The 86 and Supra are both 100% the other makers vehicle and design and all Toyota seems to do is come by, tweak some aero, change spring/strut/bar rates, and maybe an ECU tweak... then say they made it.

The Mazda RX Vision concept was shown off well before the Supra or that Lexus body that looks similar, and days after Toyota saying they can't make a new i6 which is why they were working with BMW< Mazda says they are doing one in house. Maybe Toyota is helping to finance it, but I would be VERY amazed if Toyota Engineers are giving much input if any other than power/fuel efficiency goals.

Both Sports cars that have been produced this way I'd much rather have the other makers version because it feels like THEIR car with a clearly defined goal to it.

Gazoo Racing has been a JOKE so far. I really don't get what they are doing that TRD couldn't. It's also a MUCH worse name.
 

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The problem is we know it will be more like the 86 in that Toyota just takes a shopping cart though the Mazda warehouse, picks out parts they like, sends over a sketch of what they are thinking, then walks back over in 18 months to see how it's going.

The 86 and Supra are both 100% the other makers vehicle and design and all Toyota seems to do is come by, tweak some aero, change spring/strut/bar rates, and maybe an ECU tweak... then say they made it.

The Mazda RX Vision concept was shown off well before the Supra or that Lexus body that looks similar, and days after Toyota saying they can't make a new i6 which is why they were working with BMW< Mazda says they are doing one in house. Maybe Toyota is helping to finance it, but I would be VERY amazed if Toyota Engineers are giving much input if any other than power/fuel efficiency goals.

Both Sports cars that have been produced this way I'd much rather have the other makers version because it feels like THEIR car with a clearly defined goal to it.

Gazoo Racing has been a JOKE so far. I really don't get what they are doing that TRD couldn't. It's also a MUCH worse name.
I don't disagree with you. Not at all. Toyota definitely hands off the reigns to whoever they partner with and then just sells the end product more or less. I think in part, that's why Honda hasn't attempted something like this. They like being fully independent and would want to 100% control the development of a vehicle (or at least be the leading developer like subaru and bmw were). However, they also are letting GM build their first two EV crossovers for Acura/Honda. But they're then taking it all in-house from that point out (most likely with a lot tech carryover from the GM deal). I'll tweak my previous opinion... Honda should team up with another auto maker to create new sports coupes.. but only if they're handling the major development of the platform, engines, etc while the partner maker just helps to fund the project and gets to sell their own version after.
 
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If the 86 was say, a Subaru Engine with a Toyota transmission, or Toyota had intake manifolds or headers redesigned inhouse or if the Supra's BMW engine had say been updated in some way inhouse by Toyota specifically for the Supra it would be a quite different situation.

If Toyota came out and said "We took the 2.4 Boxer from Subaru, and we designed a intake manifold and inlet system that more enhanced the high revving characteristics the 86 is known for. That along with a more aggressive cam and an increase to compression means you're going to have more fun to the redline"

Or something similar with the BMW, saying they at least in ANY way helped redesign the engine or parts of it, or even if they had changed gearing between the two. Or said something about how, on the Supra they worked to shed weight from it so while it may be mostly the same as a Z4 the Supra is almost 200lbs lighter, with perhaps different turbos or the same turbo but just a different propeller to tweak how they wanted power to come on in their application.
 
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i some what think BMW forced this JUST to save BWM costs on the Z4
 
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