Finally had a chance to do some more spiritied driving

[SteamedHams]

I finally passed the 600 mile mark, so I took the car out on some backroads that I'm intimately familiar with to put it through its paces and see how it performs when pushed harder. By no means is this 10/10ths driving; I don't even go 10/10ths at the track, but I would say solidly 7/10ths on roads with very good visibility that I know like the back of my hand.

For context, other FWD cars I've owned and/or hustled around these roads: FA5 Si, Focus ST, 500 Abarth, K24 TLX, Mk7 GTI, ILX, MS3.

I previously griped about the terrible stock tires, so I swapped them out for a set of well-worn 245/40R19 BFG gForce Comp2 summers tires. Yeah, I know these are about 5% taller than factory, but I'm still waiting on some new rubber; three sets that I've already tried ordering are on backorder .

Overall I'm very impressed with the suspension setup. When hitting bumps mid-corner, the car never gets unsettled even under throttle, which is pretty impressive for a FWD car. It's remarkably stable even on bad pavement. The LSD is also the real deal and quite impressive. While the car does still understeer at the limit on throttle (duh it's FWD), that limit is a heck of a lot higher than other FWD cars without LSDs. You have to really drive it like an ape to spin the wheels enough to get VSC to cut the throttle.

The handling is a bit numb, and the heavy weight in Sport mode feels especially artificial. With the heavier and wider wheels/tires, I actually found Comfort to be best. That said, turn-in is quick, and the car feels very nimble and easy to toss around. I wasn't able to get the car to rotate much by lifiting off the throttle (likely due to the sticker tires), but trail-braking is pretty easy and controllable. Pedal placement for heel-toe is also great.

As for the gearing, it's set up very well for the twisties. The short gears may not be ideal for 0-60 times, but on tighter roads you're able to stay in the meat of the powerband in 2nd, and you're not lugging it if you do want to drive at a more relaxed pace in 3rd.

A few downside; the stock brakes are not up to snuff for more spirited driving. They fade and turn to mush pretty quickly. They might be OK on a low-speed AutoX course, but it's a little disappointing to see them give up so quickly even on the backroads. Shouldn't be too surprising but I was hoping they'd fare at least a little bit better since the car is so light. Also, the intake/exhaust is too quiet, and I found myself having to look at the tach more than I'd like. I just couldn't hear the engine or exhaust over the road noise at higher speeds. I suppose at least it doesn't sound bad; it sounds nowhere near as good as a screaming K20, but it also doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner like some other turbo-4s. And of course, the car could use some more power. There were definitely times when I had the gas pedal matted coming through a sweeper and I thought the LSD and tires could definitely handle more power. It's got some of that Miata DNA in that sense . I'm planning to snag a KTuner during the BF/CM sales, so hopefully a tune will help address that.

 

[ManuGT]

I know it has been a while, but how does it compare to the Mk7 GTI? Had one, considering an Integra now. Currently have a Civic 1.5T and a Miata in my garage.

Thanks

 

[SteamedHams]

The GTI is much faster and pulls much harder. The engine is much much better. However, the shifter for the Integra is better, and the handling (ignoring the trash tires it comes with) is better as well. The GTI I've driven had the VAQ "differential" and it pales in comparison to the mechanical LSD of the Integra.

 

[ManuGT]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

From what I gather, it sounds like it is more engaging and fun to drive, albeit slower in straight-line. I think I can live with that, will test-drive it before making a decision. The fact it is a hatchback is really appealing to me, the added practicality over a sedan is something I could use.

Did you end up getting a kTune?

P.S. Nice car collection!

 

[joshbe89]

I finally passed the 600 mile mark, so I took the car out on some backroads that I'm intimately familiar with to put it through its paces and see how it performs when pushed harder. By no means is this 10/10ths driving; I don't even go 10/10ths at the track, but I would say solidly 7/10ths on roads with very good visibility that I know like the back of my hand.

For context, other FWD cars I've owned and/or hustled around these roads: FA5 Si, Focus ST, 500 Abarth, K24 TLX, Mk7 GTI, ILX, MS3.

I previously griped about the terrible stock tires, so I swapped them out for a set of well-worn 245/40R19 BFG gForce Comp2 summers tires. Yeah, I know these are about 5% taller than factory, but I'm still waiting on some new rubber; three sets that I've already tried ordering are on backorder .

Overall I'm very impressed with the suspension setup. When hitting bumps mid-corner, the car never gets unsettled even under throttle, which is pretty impressive for a FWD car. It's remarkably stable even on bad pavement. The LSD is also the real deal and quite impressive. While the car does still understeer at the limit on throttle (duh it's FWD), that limit is a heck of a lot higher than other FWD cars without LSDs. You have to really drive it like an ape to spin the wheels enough to get VSC to cut the throttle.

The handling is a bit numb, and the heavy weight in Sport mode feels especially artificial. With the heavier and wider wheels/tires, I actually found Comfort to be best. That said, turn-in is quick, and the car feels very nimble and easy to toss around. I wasn't able to get the car to rotate much by lifiting off the throttle (likely due to the sticker tires), but trail-braking is pretty easy and controllable. Pedal placement for heel-toe is also great.

As for the gearing, it's set up very well for the twisties. The short gears may not be ideal for 0-60 times, but on tighter roads you're able to stay in the meat of the powerband in 2nd, and you're not lugging it if you do want to drive at a more relaxed pace in 3rd.

A few downside; the stock brakes are not up to snuff for more spirited driving. They fade and turn to mush pretty quickly. They might be OK on a low-speed AutoX course, but it's a little disappointing to see them give up so quickly even on the backroads. Shouldn't be too surprising but I was hoping they'd fare at least a little bit better since the car is so light. Also, the intake/exhaust is too quiet, and I found myself having to look at the tach more than I'd like. I just couldn't hear the engine or exhaust over the road noise at higher speeds. I suppose at least it doesn't sound bad; it sounds nowhere near as good as a screaming K20, but it also doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner like some other turbo-4s. And of course, the car could use some more power. There were definitely times when I had the gas pedal matted coming through a sweeper and I thought the LSD and tires could definitely handle more power. It's got some of that Miata DNA in that sense . I'm planning to snag a KTuner during the BF/CM sales, so hopefully a tune will help address that.

Interested if you have gone with a tune and what your longer term experience has been with the car? Thanks!

 

[SteamedHams]

Interested if you have gone with a tune and what your longer term experience has been with the car? Thanks!

I posted this in the other forum but forgot to post it here:

Took mine to an Auto-X yesterday. The wild thing is that the even was very empty, so we were able to go non stop all day.

That said, after about 15 straight runs the brakes would start smoking and I would have to wait a while to let them cool. I'm not surprised because even at 6/10ths driving in the backroads I was able to cook the brakes. The car is under-braked for sure; it's a shame the only way to get better pads on it is to do a BBK swap.

Some general thoughts:

Steering feel is great, turn-in is very quick and sharp, and the chassis is very stable through chicanes.

Power is...not great. I'm even on a 19psi tune (any higher and the clutch slips) and it just feels like it needs more oomph on the straights. I never got past 50mph, and was able to stay in 2nd gear through the entire course.

The LSD works well through the sweeping turns and 90 degree corners. However, on the hairpins the VSA cuts power and bogs the car, essentially nullifying the LSD. I wish I had figured out the "pedal dance" to fully turn off VSA. Ideally coming out of the hairpins I'd be able to get a bit more wheelspin past the apex to start building boost so that when I straighten the wheel, the motor is already in boost and making power. Instead VSA cuts the power, and by the time it finally feeds power back in I'm at a lower RPM and also have to wait for the turbo to spool up.

I'm running Pirelli P-Zeros in 235/35R19 because the stock all-season Goodyears are utter trash. I was able to pick up the PZs (not PZ4s) for about $170 a pop (almost half the price of a PS4S). I pity whoever pays full price for the PZs because they're pretty mediocre. Terrible when cold, and only good but not great when hot. Well well behind the ECS and PS4 which I contend are still the two best non-200TW summer tires.

This was my first time running a FWD car at an auto-x; previous events have all been with RWD and AWD cars. What I did appreciate is that I could progressively push the car harder and harder and not worry about spinning out. It was also nice being able to get in so many runs (got about 80 runs in) to experiment with different lines, entry speeds, and tire pressures. It's definitely a different experience; in all honesty I felt RWD is still more "fun", but that's not to say FWD isn't fun, just not as fun.

There were a bunch of Miatas, and I'm happy to say I could at least catch up to the NC guys. However, the ND Miatas were no joke. On the tight course one of the RFs was cracking off runs faster than the C8 Corvette guys. Super impressive. Incidently, there was also an Si that I followed behind that was just all over the place. Thought maybe it was on all-seasons; turns out they were running some Chinese tire I've never heard of...